The new manager hunt (was the Moyes thread) only 3 days to wait...

sweepy23

Luke - totally agree about the fact that Moyes has the best intentions and also I believe knows how the club should be set up off and on the pitch, and what the training facilities should be like. We need someone like him or Arsene to straighten this club out. Like Grey has said, Moyes would bring stability but also a vision. we need to improve and grow.

Lukerz

sweepy ;ok

Ken Dyer in the Standard reporting to could take up to 10 days before a decision is made.

As if the decision hasn't already been made. They don't want him, but will offer him it if all else fails.

OldCastleSwift

Lukerz said:

sweepy ;ok

Ken Dyer in the Standard reporting to could take up to 10 days before a decision is made.

7-10 days ;wahoo

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

It will be very confusing if the Daves don't know what's going to happen.

You'd have thought they'd know whether they wanted Moyes to continue or not based on whether we stay up or not, or at least in the manner we stay up etc.

If the season has finished and now they're going to have a little look around and put some feelers out, it will be really frustrating. Time gets away from you quickly in the summer with people on holiday etc, not to mention the World Cup.

I'd be shocked if they didn't want Moyes to stay on (regardless of my own feelings about him). He seems to suit their 'kind' of appointment and hasn't done enough wrong IMO to persuade them to look elsewhere.

They kept Grant and Allardyce and to an extent Bilic on when fan negativity was much higher than it is right now towards Moyes. Because of that, I can only see them letting go of Moyes because a) He doesn't want the job or b) A preferred manager in their eyes (e.g. Benitez) is lined up and has basically accepted the job.

If we drift into the summer without a manager I will lose the last drops of faith I have in this board. We need stability, structure and improvement, and that needs to start happening this week. Not halfway through the summer when they've finally got a manager in place.

MrsGrey

Lukerz said:

sweepy ;ok

Ken Dyer in the Standard reporting to could take up to 10 days before a decision is made.

Could take? up to? There's a man who knows no more than the rest of us.

OldCastleSwift

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes said:

If we drift into the summer without a manager I will lose the last drops of faith I have in this board.

Sadly, the Cookie Club had to disband when Rav and Twist left the forum.

jay_in_cpt

I never wanted Moyes when he came, I made that clear on here.
He IMO simply isn't a fit, while some will disagree & argue what fits, Moyes IMHO simply doesn't, but don't ask me why!.
If he should stay , it's fine, I mean after all I'm just a fan who's always supported the team wherever my life may be.
Ok this is what I want to happen.
Rafa Benitez has been the " preferred choice " even before Bilic was employed ( who I still miss )....
According to all those reports then...
So nothing should have changed their mind on him, he guided the Toon to a 10thplace with let's face it, a below average squad IMO, so nothing has made his worth surely any less.
So if it's the case they are still unsure on Moyes, which we don't know tho, but if the case , just prove a point and go all guns to get him.....
Whatever the cost, if that's always been their 1st choice, splash the cash & roll the dice......
And if not, I'll accept Moyes, whether I like it or not, he did what was asked, some good performances and IMO he's not a bad manager , just not for us.....

claretandbluesky

The difficulty in my view is because the original question regarding whether Moyes was a very good manager as established during his time at Everton, when he over achieved with regard budget etc, or the underachieving one as derived from his time at Man Utd, Socieadad and Sunderland, places at which he blatantly did not achieve what was hoped and was sacked accordingly, has yet to be answered.

You cannot say he has failed as he has kept us up but he has not made us look a different side to the one Slav had and in my view although Moyes deserves the credit for changing his position I think were you to take Arnie out of our squad we would have gone down (slav's purchase) and I feel sure there are more than a few Stoke fans who will believe they would have stayed up had they not sold him. Did Moyes keep us up or did Arnie? On reflection I think there are better managers out there but I am not sure we would attract them at present, Rafa for example, but I also wouldn't criticise the decision to give Moyes a new contract for next season to see if Everton Moyes is still alive and well. What I would be sure of however is that if I could only keep Arnie or Moyes I think keeping Arnie will make most difference to our season. I believe him to be a 50m striker and we will never attract one of those at present if we sell him.

Although I agree with the old saying that one man does not make a team we do have so many examples of individuals making a vast difference.

MrsGrey

I think it's only fair that if, when the players under-perform and the team does badly, the manager gets the blame then when the players play well and the team does well, the manager gets the credit.

So if he is to be judged (as per your opening argument) as a good manager (Everton's results) or a poor manager (the other clubs' results) then why not apply the same to his tenure at West Ham?

You seem to be moving the goalposts? If you want to take account of the contribution the players made to his success/failure (as per your Arnie example) then you have to factor that in at the other clubs too, surely?

Slaven_Cups_His_Beard

Alderzzz fine work on those stats and graphs mate ;ok

We spent 87 days in the bottom three ;nonono

Got to be honest had I been asked I’d never of thought it was anywhere near that long!!

Regarding Moyes, did well at the weekend, he got it spot on and that it how I want to see us play, I actually don’t think him and Bilic are that different, it’s a fine balance between being solid and punishing on the break with pace....

The Dave’s, what a pair they are, how do you manage to get yourself into these types of situations? They’re almost certainly touting other managers, hoping one will take the bait, if they do they say goodbye to Moyes if they don’t they’ll say he was always their number 1 choice (until it inevitably comes out later on). They’re scatter gun approach stinks of being amateurs at this game after trying for 25 years.

I’m really happy that Moyes appears to be calling them out on certain things, fair play to him.

sweepy23

Slaven_Cups_His_Beard said:

I’m really happy that Moyes appears to be calling them out on certain things, fair play to him.

;ok

claretandbluesky

I agree it's wrong to accredit all blame to a manager when it's clear players are underperforming, but in my view Moyes has not answered the question of whether he can take us forward or not yet. With regard players I did say there are examples of one player changing a teams fortunes and I feel Arnie has been that significant this season. I think the difference in my argument with regard his tenure at Everton and West Ham is time, at Everton he achieved over a long period of time and was an undoubted success,and he has yet to have that time with us, and my point being that in the short time he has had, whilst I am undecided as to his merit, I personally feel the deciding factor in our pulling clear eventually was Arnie. So yes the manager should not be without credit but at the same time one player can distort the picture that the manager perhaps benefits from disproportionally . Some would say Payet made us so much better than we were as a group without him and in turn made us sing super Slav when really Payet was the deciding factor of that season. In the same way I am suggesting without Arnie we may not have stayed up, but that is all just an opinion, and it's not even one I am wed to but it is one I feel worth considering when trying to appraise Moyes's time with us, which is what this thread is about.

I can only guess but I would imagine Moyes himself would suggest he could have turned it around at Man Utd given that time, and the resources that subsequent managers have been given. But this is all conjecture and so doesn't help us when taking a view of is he the one to take us forward or not.

sweepy23

Also slightly worried that should Moyes leave for another PL club he may poach Rice and Arnie

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

Why would we sell Rice and Arnie to another mid-table team? The owners would have to really fancy a riot for that to happen.

Lukerz

I think had some of those thrashings been closer affairs (1-0s, 2-1s etc), there would be a different view on his time here. What his spell has shown us is that when we go 1-0 up under him we are a confident team who defend the lead well and tend to win comfortably, we don't throw away many leads. However, when we go behind (particularly 2-0 down), that is it. We don't have the mentality (or maybe resources/leadership) to get ourselves back into the game or keep ourselves in the game. Moyes has to answer for that too. He tends to make subs that are predictable and often too late. I really am 50-50 on this call. I think he could potentially be very good for us and I agree with slizzy, there's not much between him and Slav, he certainly is no Sam or Pulis, IMO.

Lukerz

Lukerz said:

(UPDATED) Moyes' record so far:

Wins:
West Ham 1-0 Chelsea
Stoke 0-3 West Ham
West Ham 2-1 WBA
Huddersfield 1-4 West Ham
West Ham 2-0 Watford
West Ham 3-0 Southampton
Leicester 0-2 West Ham
West Ham 3-1 Everton

Draws:
West Ham 1-1 Leicester
West Ham 0-0 Arsenal
Bournemouth 3-3 West Ham
Spurs 1-1 West Ham
West Ham 1-1 Bournemouth
West Ham 1-1 Crystal Palace
Chelsea 1-1 West Ham
West Ham 1-1 Stoke
West Ham 0-0 Man Utd

Defeats:
Watford 2-0 West Ham
Everton 4-0 West Ham
Man City 2-1 West Ham
West Ham 2-3 Newcastle
Brighton 3-1 West Ham
Liverpool 4-1 West Ham
Swansea 4-1 West Ham
West Ham 0-3 Burnley
Arsenal 4-1 West Ham
West Ham 1-4 Man City

33 points from 27 games. GD of -8. Roughly 10th place form.

IronHerb

Lukerz said:

(UPDATED) Moyes' record so far:

Wins:
West Ham 2-1 WBA*
Huddersfield 1-4 West Ham*

Draws:
West Ham 1-1 Leicester*
Bournemouth 3-3 West Ham*
Spurs 1-1 West Ham+
West Ham 1-1 Bournemouth*
West Ham 1-1 Crystal Palace*
Chelsea 1-1 West Ham*
West Ham 1-1 Stoke*

Defeats:
Man City 2-1 West Ham+
West Ham 2-3 Newcastle+

Again under Moyes.

* Points gained in matches where we went behind. (W2, D6)
+Points lost after scoring first. (1D, 2L)

Not many teams come back from 2-0 down so I think that's a bit harsh.
We came back from 1 goal down to get points in 8 games from the 16 we conceded first so not quite as bad as you contend Lukerz. IMO of course.

MrsGrey

Lukerz said:

However, when we go behind (particularly 2-0 down), that is it.

Genuine question: is our record when we go behind by a couple of goals any worse than anyone else's?

I'd have expected it to be the norm that once the losing team has to start pushing for goals, it becomes easier for the winning team to get a couple more, and we are no worse than any other team in that regard. ;hmm

(The stage of the match that the goals are scored probably is a big factor too - how long you have to defend for while trying to fashion opportunities to have a shot on goal.)

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

I think you're right Lukerz, in that if, say, the Burnley, Swansea, Everton and perhaps Brighton defeats had been much closer, the 'feel' towards him would be a lot better.

When we lose, we seem to get battered. And it's horrible, as it's been going on for a while. You don't mind taking a pasting from the top 4-6 if they're on form, but conceding 3 and 4 to teams in and around us on a regular basis is depressing.

TheMadcapLaughs

On reading this and other forums I`ve definitely come out in the Moyes in camp now. The biggest thing for me is after six months both he and his team will have settled, they will have sussed out where we are weak and need to strengthen, and they will have built a relationship with the players. With this in mind, and with suitable financial backing, I believe that Moyes and his boys will have it sorted come end of summer. To start again now, whoever the board have in mind, will be a backward step.

MOYES IN

MrsGrey

Interesting (thanks for the stats Luke) that most of our defeats are away (7). Of the 3 at home, one was against City one was the Burnley game (which I think should be ignored) and the other was v. Newcastle. I still don't know how they beat us so badly.

Quite a good set of stats, imo. For clubs like ours, you need your home games to be your bread and butter points.

MrsGrey

Those draws ;nonono

6 at home.
2 away at top 6 teams.
1 away at Bournemouth after we went 2-1 down and that flippin' ref overruled the lino to allow the Callum Wilson goal ;angry

Chappers

Moyes 'unlikely to stay' according to sky sports reports.

I have to say, I'd rather he stayed for the reasons already pointed out in the eyes of consistancey.
We now have to go through the process of more unrest and instability. I hope the owners have their man lined up already!

Lukerz

Sky saying up to 40 managers are interested in the job. ;hmm

OldCastleSwift

Been thinking about it all day.

#moyesin

But yeah, Sully will find a way of making things so much more difficult than they need to be, I'm sure

Cuz1

Don’t get it with Moyes unless it’s the board, can’t see him goingto a top six side so surely with his self proclaimed ability he could with little investment but a bit of tinkering push us on further, we have been poor this season but only two off of top ten nine off of eighth so I believe it must be the owners

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

I'm more and more Moyes in, mainly because it seems we don't have anybody else lined up, and I fear we are going to be destabilising the club yet again.

And not for any really compelling reason (i.e. a star manager is lined up and ready to take the job). Moyes has done a good job in difficult circumstances.

#MoyesIn

OldCastleSwift

Tuchel has gone to PSG so at least we don't have to wait for him to turn us down

OldCastleSwift

Lukerz said:

Sky saying up to 40 managers are interested in the job. ;hmm

Would that be Jim 'Sullivan's Pet' White making that statement by any chance?

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

I wonder if Emery is being looked at again.

We might also have a chance with Benitez if we can categorically offer him more transfer funds than Newcastle.