The new manager hunt (was the Moyes thread) only 3 days to wait...

IronHerb

That's if AC wants to go.
Also why would you sacrifice Prem status for a £10m transfer fee? I'm not saying AC is the answer this season but he certainly is an option and all options should be on the table at this stage.

alderz

MrsGrey said:

baracks_a_hammer said:

worse than grant and macari in terms of win percentages. And presiding over a defence that is all over the place.

The % is calculated over such a small number of games that a couple of wins can add nearly 10% to the figure. So % should be taken under advisement at this stage, imo

But if we are doing % as a measure of manager's success, I'm more interested in home record than all games, and also in loss % overall. I want these figures to be high, and low, respectively.

A quick look at results since Moyes was appointed shows 11 losses out of 24... just over 44%. I don't know how that compares to previous managers. If I get time later, I'll look.

For us, I think we should be focus on doing as well as possible at home and on losing as few as possible overall. (PL stats only, not Cups, as that's a whole different ball game.)

I have the raw data to do this in my spreadsheet ;ok

MrsGrey

;bowdown

I'd love to see it, but only if you have time.

(I don't expect others to do my research for me ;hug )

OldCastleSwift

As if Alderz wouldn't find the time for stats ;biggrin

alderz

Ok, so it only goes back to the start of the 1994/95 season, but that gives us our last 9 permanent managers. I've done it in a few different ways, but I think the best way to answer the question is about home games in the premier league only. So I've completely excluded cup games, away games, championship/division one games, and games taken by a caretaker manager.

So this first chart is just the overall home win % in the premier league. Over the 397 home premier league games we played in that period we won 174 (43.8%). Moyes is much below anyone (other than Avram) with 30.8%.



This second chart shows the wins, draws and losses for each manager to give a sense of perspective around the numbers. Moyes has had 13 home matches so far, while Harry Redknapp had 135.

alderz

I hadn't noticed the overall loss part you mentioned so here's that too.

Only two managers have a better loss % than Moyes (41.7% losses) in the PL - Harry (38.7%) and Slav (35.6%).

MrsGrey

Wow. Thanks alderz.

That's really useful to inform the discussion (imo) ;thumbsup

With the caveat that Moyes has had a relatively few games in charge, so the stas are based on quite a small sample, it looks like we are hard to beat... although it may be that further analysis of losing scorelines show that when we are beaten, we are thoroughly beaten. ;weep

Vorselaarhammer

Why did we sack Bilic again.... ;hmm

alderz

MrsGrey said:

With the caveat that Moyes has had a relatively few games in charge, so the stas are based on quite a small sample, it looks like we are hard to beat... although it may be that further analysis of losing scorelines show that when we are beaten, we are thoroughly beaten. ;weep

"Further analysis" you say... ;hmm

I just looked at all our losses, summed goals for and against and averaged them by manager. Again, Premier League only.

Under Moyes, when we lose we concede an average of 3.3 goals and score an average of 0.8. No other permanent manager (post-Bonds) has a worse defensive record in defeat than Moyes does.

That record puts him at an average goal difference per defeat of -2.50. The next worse was Avram (-2.11), and the best was (unsurprisingly) Big Sam (-1.65).

So, basically, when we lose under Moyes we lose more heavily than in under any other of our last 9 managers.

The flip side of that is that we actually also have our most convincing win margin under Moyes too. When we win in the league (it's only happened 6 times under him so it's not a good sample) under Moyes we score 2.50 goals per game and concede 0.33 per game, a goal difference of +2.17 per win. The next best is Avram (+2.00) and the worst was Pardew (+1.40).

The thing to take from that, IMO, is that Avram and Moyes have won far, far less than the others so their win analysis is not robust.

Lukerz

alderz ;ok great stuff.

Says a lot for our mentality under Moyes. And the general mentality of the players. First goal, as the cliche goes, appears to be vital. We don't recover after going 1-0 down, but are pretty good when going 1-0 up. Was the same under Bilic too.

Lukerz

Also saw a stat to say in the few games AC has started this season (think it was 7), we have won 3, drawn 3 and lost 1 (win % 43).

He obviously makes a big impact when fit to start. And after scoring against Stoke, I think he is entitled to be miffed at his minutes in the last two games.

Lukerz

Speaking of which, Carroll resumes training after apologising to Moyes:
http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11685/11355862/andy-carroll-returns-to-west-ham-training-after-apologising-to-david-moyes

grey_til_I_dye

Nice to see that Moyes isn't letting ego get in the way of what is the best for the club.

baracks_a_hammer

Something is getting in the way of him giving chicharito more game time and one can’t help but feel whatever it is is a spillover from the Man U days

grey_til_I_dye

baracks

I don't think it is personal, I think it is tactical.

Chicarito needs a particular kind of service, and if Moyes doesn't feel we can set up to provide that for 90 minutes, then he won't play him. We probably carry a greater offensive threat when Chicarito is on the pitch, but we pay a price in terms of our defensive side.

You can argue that Moyes is wrong about that, but I honestly don't see him allowing personality to get in the way of success.

Cuz1

I’d still put money that Chico be gone in the summer

alderz

grey ;ok

Whilst I agree with that logically, my frustration is that our defence is so consistently poor that I feel it is naive to take away our attacking threat to focus on defence.

Hammerdublin

Cuz1 said:

I’d still put money that Chico be gone in the summer

I'd rather see Moyes be gone than Chicharito AND Carroll. These are the players a good manager can build a team around, along with Arnie, Lanzini, Masuaka and Ogbonna. Let Moyes first do his job and ensure our survival - and then I don't care if he stays or goes.

Cuz1

I’m on the unsure list didn’t want him but seemed to win me over, but recently as gone back to the unsure again, I’m leaning towards taking a punt on someone out of the usual and go from there as I stated when he arrived I thort we’d stay up but not because of him but because other teams around us were poorer, to win games you have to score goals, and fifteen minutes cameo off the bench isn’t enough for me let alone him

OldCastleSwift

https://telegraph.co.uk/football/2018/05/04/david-moyes-bemoans-west-ham-culture-leaked-stories/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Quite an interesting article with direct quotes from Moyes. He's (understandably) not happy with how information gets leaked at the club, which is something that I'm sure a lot of fans will agree with.

It feels like a dig at his seniors to me. Pure speculation, but I wonder if he's already preparing his case for defence for when he gets ditched by the owners later this month and blamed for our struggles (which I think he will be) ;hmm

OldCastleSwift

"In terms of other cultural changes he feels need to be made, Moyes said: “Lots of them have been made noticeable in as much that things like recruitment. Those sorts of things are things which should be given to the head of recruitment or the manager – it should be the people who are running that part of the business.”"

In fact, that's not very ambiguous at all, is it ;lol I think Sully has just been poked...

sweepy23

It’s a shame because I feel we’re on a bit of a merry go round. A new manager will be brought in and they’ll be saying the same things at the end of next season.

Slaven_Cups_His_Beard

Clearly talking about Sully according to ExWHU who essentially leaks the team every week

;lol

baracks_a_hammer

Ok now I’ve had time to soak in the relief and elation, back to the matters in hand

Moyes out.

Slaven_Cups_His_Beard

So undecided.....on one hand I think he can take us forward on the other feels like we’ve gone back 4 years

Fortuneseeker

Relieved we have survived but I still have a real sense of being underwhelmed by all that has happened this season. I only hope we can put most, if not all, the wrongs right during the summer & if that means yet another new manager so be it. Will the owners realise what needs to be done or just fudged it as has been done over the previous transfer windows?

jay_in_cpt

IMO he has 2 " free hits" v Man U & Everton, let's see how those go...

He has done what was asked, stay up, but the jury is out for me.

It's over to you Mr Moyes, 2 wins in our last 2 games and think he will remain.

ASLEFshrugged

Anyone who can turn Arnie from this season's Zaza into Hammer of the Year deserves at least another season

Fortuneseeker

If the Evertonian can think they have had enough of Big Sam who has done exactly the same as what was asked of Mr Moyes but alot better then I can see no reason why his position shouldn't be under review.

MrsGrey

So we are modelling our decision-making on Everton? Interesting approach!