The new manager hunt (was the Moyes thread) only 3 days to wait...

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  • Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_MoyesJorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes
    Almost everybody employs a manager currently out of work.
  • VorselaarhammerVorselaarhammer
    Pep, Jose were both frees...
  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    They do Jorderz, which suggests to me that clubs rarely appoint the manager they really want, particuarly mid-season.

    Which is why I think we lucked into Moyes rather than it being a masterstroke by the board.

    Moyes was available in the summer, but they stuck with Bilic. That to me suggests that Moyes wasn't on their radar until Bilic's meltdown forced their hand to act.
  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    edited February 2018
    alderz said:

    People act like the owners just needed to click their fingers and offer a bag of money and other clubs would have been booting their successful manager out of the door, but it isn't that easy.

    I don't think anyone is suggesting it is ;hmm

    Pretty much all of the clubs that have sacked their manager this season have ended up with underwhelming replacements. I just happen to think we got the best of that underwhelming bunch.
  • IronHerbIronHerb
    So what 'overwhelming' manager were you expecting to pick up?
  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    edited February 2018
    IronHerb said:

    So what 'overwhelming' manager were you expecting to pick up?

    I wasn't.

    And I'm not sure where you think I suggested that I was ;hmm

    My point is that Moyes, Lambert, Allardyce, Pardew et al would not have been people's first choice of manager. The main reason they got their respective jobs is because they were available rather than their actual ability, IMO.

    When we sacked Bilic, I wasn't claiming we should be targetting Guardiola, or Conte, or Ancelotti, or any other 'overwhelming' manager because I knew they weren't realistic.

    Moyes was the best of what was available and, with hindsight, I'm glad we've got him; I just don't think that the board acted out of courage or a belief that Moyes was the man for us (the six month contract alone implies they themselves had considerable doubt), but more out of necessity.
  • Pearces_Left_FootPearces_Left_Foot
    I think Moyes has exceeded many peoples expectations (which were quite low), he got a good back room team , got the players fitter than have been for a long time and instilled belief back into the team. He seems to be enjoying life at West Ham and seems like the Moyes of Everton rather than the Moyes of Sunderland. If he can get the transfers sorted which seems to be happening I think we could have a v good manager on our hands.
  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    PLF, absolutely agree with that ;ok
  • VorselaarhammerVorselaarhammer
    Interesting interview on the OS with one the coaches, gives some insight into how Moyes runs things.

    http://www.whufc.com/news/articles/2018/february/13-february/billy-mckinlay-coach-all-seasons
  • alderzalderz
    OldCastleSwift said:

    Moyes was the best of what was available and, with hindsight, I'm glad we've got him; I just don't think that the board acted out of courage or a belief that Moyes was the man for us (the six month contract alone implies they themselves had considerable doubt), but more out of necessity.

    I think that they deserve credit for changing manager. You can say it's an act of necessity, and I do agree with that to an extent, but they don't sack managers mid season, it's not something they've ever done (I think it was once with Birmingham?). If it was a 'necessity' to do so this year, then it was even more so the year Avram Grant was in charge. According to some it was a necessity at a similar stage last season to sack Bilic, but they didn't. Based on the fact they don't do it, and the fact they made the call, I think it's fair to call it an act of courage (with a given value of courage).

    Separately, and I may be inventing this so I'll happily be corrected, but I am sure we have been linked with Moyes on a few occasions since the Dave's bought the club. If that's the case, could it be argued that actually the have got their long term target?
  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    If they'd got their long term target, I doubt they'd have given him a six-month contract.
  • alderzalderz
    OCS

    Personally, I think they are hedging their bets. I think when he came in they were still worried about relegation, and they thought that they didn't want to pay out to someone if they went down.

    I think it's perfectly conceivable that the plan is to have Moyes in charge for years, but that both parties wanted the flexibility of a break clause at the end of the season.

    Also, what's to say that the owners didn't sit down and say "we want to give you a 3 year deal" but Moyes wanted a shorter term? He didn't want to manage Sunderland in the Championship, and he's also frequently reminded of how well his long term contract with ManUtd turned out. Isn't it possible that he was the one who wanted it shorter?
  • ASLEFshruggedASLEFshrugged
    edited February 2018
    alderz - I think both parties had reasons to be cautious about a long term deal so they agreed to give it a six months trial period and see how it went
  • Cuz1Cuz1
    In a way Moyes was in a win win situation if we were relegated he could say it’s the club and owners and if he keeps us up is reputation goes back up and other clubs want him, I personally didn’t want him but think he’s earned a contract, just not sure he will want it but hope I’m wrong
  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    It's certainly possible Alderz, but I still don't think that the board considered Moyes their No1 target. My personal opinion is that he was considered a means to an end in keeping us up, after which point we would look elsewhere (Benitez or Silva).

    As it's transpired, Moyes is proving himself very capable and increasingly popular so I fully expect them to give him a longer contract in the summer.
  • secrethammersfansecrethammersfan
    "Listen, we'd like it if you'd manage us. We know we're down the wrong end of the table, so we understand if you don't want a long-term contract"
    "Yeah, I understand. You don't want to sign me up for five years and then have me take you into the Championship in five months!"
    "Right! How about we agree to see how it goes this season, and then we'll sit down in the summer and talk long-term?"
    "Sounds good to me!"

    This version does not allow for the assumption that the Board are cheapskates, incompetent, weak, conniving or reluctant to sign Moyes, or that Moyes doesn't want to sign, hates West Ham, is the second choice, or wants to leave in the summer, and so is useless to this forum.

    I agree that I don't know what I'm talking about, and apologise for this post in advance, and agree with any statement anybody wishes to make following this.
  • buffybegoodbuffybegood
    edited February 2018
    secrethammersfan said:

    This version does not allow for the assumption that the Board are cheapskates, incompetent, weak, conniving or reluctant to sign Moyes,

    Not sure why it doesn't allow that assumption at all; I think you could be spot on with the dialogue but I still think the board are cheapskates, incompetent, weak and conniving.
  • alderzalderz
    I don't really know what my theory is on how they came to the agreement they did, and I guess it doesn't really matter what I think went on, because I won't ever get a confirmation anyway.

    IMO it's only fair to give the owners credit for a good decision. They appointed someone who is doing a good job. My own feeling on the owners doesn't really impact upon that.
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    Moyes goes on a charm offensive ;biggrin
    “I’m having dinner with [former Academy Director] Tony Carr and one or two other people who have been part of the Club, so I’m building up my knowledge on West Ham and trying to become more informed.

    “I want to embrace the ex-players. We’ve had Ray Stewart and Tony Cottee down, I’ve invited Tony Gale in and I’m trying to get Frank McAvennie down from Scotland. I’ve told them they can come and watch training, as I’ve got nothing to hide, or come to a game.

    “For football clubs to flourish, they need the ex-players around it, even around the training ground. If any of the ex-players want to come in, we’re saying come down and have lunch with us.”
    Read more at http://www.whufc.com/news/articles/2018/march/09-march/moyes-confirms-hart-will-start-goal-against-burnley#ZWMElhmjfRkmQ4RY.99
  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    edited March 2018


    Charm offensive, or new transfer policy ;whistle
  • BubblesNeverDiesBubblesNeverDies
    Genuine question, what was the reason for replacing Tony Carr with Terry Westley, that is of course if it is actually known.
  • PrestonHammerPrestonHammer
    I am guessing Tony Carr wanted to retire.
  • ASLEFshruggedASLEFshrugged
    I don't think Tony Carr wanted to retire, he was shunted upstairs when he was 63, and became an "ambassador" but when he reached 65 was offered a part time role which he rejected.

    Westley had been S&G's youth manager at Birmingham City.
  • Slaven_Cups_His_BeardSlaven_Cups_His_Beard
    Not really any better than Slav
  • YeoldhammerYeoldhammer
    Could be the official end of Moyes career hopefully Everton do the same with Allardyce and we can finally see some new young blood managers in.
  • alderzalderz
    Not to be reactionary, because I felt until a few games ago that he was doing a good job, BUT after 23 games Moyes win % is 26.09%. That is the worst of any of our permanent managers. Zola had 28.75%, Roeder had 31.40%, Grant had 31.91%.

    6 wins in 23 is pretty abysmal.
  • baracks_a_hammerbaracks_a_hammer
    We have now had several meltdown performances too. I’m not convinced he’s one who can handle a crisis
  • alderzalderz
    Some of the decisions have been strange, IMO.

    Dropping Hernandez right as he found some form, sticking with Mario even though he has offered very little, not making subs til extremely late on in games, rarely using all three subs, not giving Hugill a sniff, bringing Evra into the side after Antonio had just given a very good performance at wing back.

    I am no longer convinced he's the long term answer, but he still has plenty of time to turn my opinion around.
  • Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_MoyesJorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes
    I thought Moyes was doing really well but the last three games have been bad.

    Against Liverpool, I thought we were good in the first half and eventually their quality told, so no real alarm bells.

    Swansea reminded me a lot of watching Slav’s teams crumble. Just awful.

    Today, we were playing well before they scored the first goal and didn’t deserve to be behind. I maintain we looked good enough to get back into the game before everything turned toxic.

    But I just don’t know anymore. I thought he was turning the defensive shape around, but he hasn’t. Teams keep pouring through at will and it’s despressing to watch.
  • ClaretandBlueforLifeClaretandBlueforLife
    baracks_a_hammer said:

    We have now had several meltdown performances too. I’m not convinced he’s one who can handle a crisis

    barracks,

    I’d add that i’m not sure we have the players to handle a meltdown either.
This discussion has been closed.