Everton away 2pm Sunday 17th October Sky Sports

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Comments

  • chicagohammerchicagohammer
    Re the bookings, I agree that both Antonio’s and Fornals cards were not so much harsh, but plain wrong.

    It is fortunate that they did not appear to significantly influence the game,
  • LukerzLukerz
    The more I see the Rondon incident, the more I am confused VAR didn’t look at it.

    It’s a bit like the Fornals one against Leicester, where Perez was sent off. The foot movement is just so unnatural. I am not saying he intended to clatter him in the face, but you way his foot moves is just not normal for a player about to run away with the ball at his feet.

    Could certainly have been a red for reckless play.
  • BazshuayiBazshuayi
    As mentioned at half time both the bookings were a joke. Antonio never asked for a foul, didnt roll around and just basically lost balance. Fornals was a total nothing too. However, the Everton boy Godfreys exaggeration was definitely worth a booking as if he'd have conned the ref, Antonio would've got his second yellow basically both for nothing. If we'd have lost or either had got a second yellow I'd have been fuming!
  • BazshuayiBazshuayi
    P.s. The depth of the injuries to Tomas look like a plastic surgery job (for a heel that did not go back naturally into his face IMO)
  • LukerzLukerz
    I get the Fornals booking, because anywhere else on the pitch he may have got away with it (it wasn’t bad) but they were breaking at pace.
  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    Personally, I think Antonio dived. His heavy touch lost control of the ball and he was banking on Keane making contact, which he didn't.

    I have no grievance with the booking, but Godfrey's dive was the same, if not worse in terms of simulation, so he should also have been booked. And it's that inconsistency that drives me batty. Shouldn't matter if it's a forward diving for a freekick just outside the box or a defender diving on the touchline (nor should it matter if you're wearing the claret and blue of West Ham or the red of Man Utd (Ronaldo took a dive three times against us and nothing was done)); simulation is simulation and should be punished.
  • alderzalderz
    re: Rondon on Soucek

    I personally feel that it only looks unnatural movement when you slow it down to super slow speed. At normal speed, it looks like Rondon felt Soucek behind him, and stepped across to protect the ball. For him to know that Soucek had fallen into that exact position would mean Rondon has Daredevil levels of reaction and awareness, imo.
  • Dodger58Dodger58
    I too thought it was accidental, but my wife thought it deliberate, maybe it was, but hopefully Rondon was not deliberately targeting his head. I was surprised it was not looked at more on MOTD2, especially after seeing the photos showing how nasty the injury is.
  • LukerzLukerz
    OldCastleSwift said:

    Personally, I think Antonio dived. His heavy touch lost control of the ball and he was banking on Keane making contact, which he didn't.

    I have no grievance with the booking, but Godfrey's dive was the same, if not worse in terms of simulation, so he should also have been booked. And it's that inconsistency that drives me batty. Shouldn't matter if it's a forward diving for a freekick just outside the box or a defender diving on the touchline (nor should it matter if you're wearing the claret and blue of West Ham or the red of Man Utd (Ronaldo took a dive three times against us and nothing was done)); simulation is simulation and should be punished.

    I think there can be a grey area for dives & it’s the same for penalties.

    We seem to obsess about whether there was contact or not, or enough to go down etc. There can be a scenario where a player goes down & there is no contact, but it’s not a dive. A player can also make contact with a player in the box & it not be enough to warrant a penalty.

    Antonio had just done a lung busting run, maintaining his balance throughout, he saw a player going to make a challenge & almost anticipated contact. He didn’t intend to deceive the officials. He didn’t appeal. His brain predicted a challenge that came but no contact was made. No free kick but no booking. Let the game go on.
  • IronHerbIronHerb
    Funny but we slaughter Salah for diving with the lightest of contact but Antonio going down without contact isn't a dive?
  • BazshuayiBazshuayi
    Looked like a genuine loss of balance to me (no bias)
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    I still thought I saw foot-to-foot contact on the slo mo.
    IronHerb said:

    Funny but we slaughter Salah for diving with the lightest of contact but Antonio going down without contact isn't a dive?

    They aren't mutually exclusive.

    A dive is, imo, a deliberate attempt to deceive the officials into giving you an advantage/penalising the opponents by going to ground. Going down after losing your balance, slipping etc even with minimum or no contact isn't always a dive. We often see players (including Salah) go to ground and not appeal for anything but just get up and carry on. Not a dive, imo, and I wouldn't 'slaughter him' for it.
  • BubblesNeverDiesBubblesNeverDies
    IronHerb said:

    Funny but we slaughter Salah for diving with the lightest of contact but Antonio going down without contact isn't a dive?

    The difference is Salah is "slaughtered" because of his exaggeration of contact and subsequent appealing. Antonio made no such appeal, nor any exaggeration of his fall.
    Chalk and cheese imo.
  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    edited October 2021
    Lukerz said:

    OldCastleSwift said:

    Personally, I think Antonio dived. His heavy touch lost control of the ball and he was banking on Keane making contact, which he didn't.

    I have no grievance with the booking, but Godfrey's dive was the same, if not worse in terms of simulation, so he should also have been booked. And it's that inconsistency that drives me batty. Shouldn't matter if it's a forward diving for a freekick just outside the box or a defender diving on the touchline (nor should it matter if you're wearing the claret and blue of West Ham or the red of Man Utd (Ronaldo took a dive three times against us and nothing was done)); simulation is simulation and should be punished.

    I think there can be a grey area for dives & it’s the same for penalties.

    We seem to obsess about whether there was contact or not, or enough to go down etc. There can be a scenario where a player goes down & there is no contact, but it’s not a dive. A player can also make contact with a player in the box & it not be enough to warrant a penalty.

    Antonio had just done a lung busting run, maintaining his balance throughout, he saw a player going to make a challenge & almost anticipated contact. He didn’t intend to deceive the officials. He didn’t appeal. His brain predicted a challenge that came but no contact was made. No free kick but no booking. Let the game go on.
    Yeah, I agree there's plenty of shades of grey, but I still think Antonio, to use Mrs G's definition, dived in an attempt to get a free kick from the ref. To me it looked like he took a heavy touch, overran the ball and went looking for the free kick.

    I can see why people argue otherwise and I have no issue with that; it's entirely subjective 👍
  • LukerzLukerz
    edited October 2021
    Yeah, like for me Ronaldo deliberately initiating contact and then rolling over and claiming for the penalty is far worse than what Antonio did, yet Ronaldo got no booking. It’s the intent to deceive for me but appreciate the ref didn’t exactly have a shocker by making that call.
  • IronHerbIronHerb
    edited October 2021
    Best performance in controlling a match that I've seen under Moyes. Apart from Iwobi's chance Fab had nothing to do other than catch a few shots.
    Good performances all round too with Rice being immense. Soucek was back to near his previous form and with the front four running and running and running Everton couldn't really get into the game. Oggy and Zouma played well as a pair, albeit with no real strikers to test them. Johnson showed the promise that he has with a solid performance.
    A win at Everton is always a good win and to to do so in such a convincing manner bodes well.
    COYI
  • BarneyBarney
    Rondons stamp on Souchek was dliberate in my view. There is no logic in his foot going backwards like that when he is moving forward. i think he got away with one.
  • KuchinghammerKuchinghammer
    I'm a tolerant sort (😉) but that was the first time this season I've been shouting abuse at the ref. But it's not the first time I've shouted abuse at that particular ref. I would be happy for the club to ask for him not to ref our matches in future. Rant over.
  • LukerzLukerz
    Is it me or is Cresswell’s distribution getting better & better. I have noticed it a lot this season but especially in this game. His passing is really good. First time, on the floor or chipped in, down the line etc. He seems really composed on the ball.
  • alderzalderz
    Lukerz said:

    Is it me or is Cresswell’s distribution getting better & better. I have noticed it a lot this season but especially in this game. His passing is really good. First time, on the floor or chipped in, down the line etc. He seems really composed on the ball.

    I think he’s a case of players being better in a good team. When we’re on the back foot all the time it’s hard to show your best.
  • OutcastLondonerOutcastLondoner
    Yep, he's got a good little triangle with Fornals and Benrahma all ready to interchange now. The three of them are quite good together.
  • FlorinRaducliousFlorinRaduclious
    He's always had a bit of a wand of a left foot IMO. He had that season and a half where he was a little off the boil for whatever reason, but he's been a huge part of our side since he joined and has effectively owned the LB slot since 2014! Nothing but love for the lad, quality player.

    At 31, he still has a few seasons of top end left in him - particularly as he's never been a speedster, but I would like to bring in a young gifted naturally left sided LB to deputise / learn the ropes, but ultimately really challenge Cress for the starting berth.

    I love Masu as a LWB but hate him as a LB. And Johnson can do a decent job there but he's not a natural left sided player, and while he's a useful back up there, he's not gonna challenge Cress as starting LB.
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