Smash Those Potters - Stoke (A) Match Thread 16.12.17 3pm

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Comments

  • LukerzLukerz
    Izzy - it was a dive, but I think Lanzini was a bit unlucky. He’d ran 60 yards at full pelt, rides two challenges and then gets into the box and sees Pieters come steaming over ready to lunge. He expects the tackle, it doesn’t come, he falls, then gets touched and ref gives it. I expect him to get banned. I don’t think he was trying to cheat. Only he will know.

    Stoke. As Jorderz beautifully put it, what a joke of a club. Crouch back up front? God it must be desperate for them. And Hughes, who I didn’t mind, completely showed himself up to be a complete idiot. Meant to be setting the example, and decides to get into a schoolboy spat with a former colleague. No wonder his side are so ugly to watch, taking after their gaffer and his antics.

    Say what you like about counter attacking football (Leicester and the like) but boy can it be brilliant to watch. One minute camped on the edge of your own box with 7 back. The next, in the box at the other end banging in a goal, all in less than 20 seconds. Good stuff. Cresswell and Masuaku were excellent, Arnie was on a personal man mission (hope it’s not just because it was Stoke), Obiang looked very assured and Lanzini was the Lanzini we’ve missed all season. Confidence is flooding back and we certainly look a confidence side.
  • SuzanneClaretSuzanneClaret
    "As for time wasting, at one stage they switched the 'thrower' three times. At this occasion he decided to show a yellow card when West Ham must have taken over a full minute to take a throw in"....

    Can you spell i r o n y ?

    image
  • alderzalderz
    Manu charged
  • grey_til_I_dyegrey_til_I_dye
    Well, technically, it has been referred to an independent panel.

    He will only be charged if they find against him.
  • alderzalderz
    On sky sports they are saying the panel agreed and he has been charged
  • Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_MoyesJorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes
    Right decision. Blatant dive IMo, sadly.
  • ASLEFshruggedASLEFshrugged
    From the BBC

    West Ham playmaker Manuel Lanzini has been charged by the Football Association for diving during Saturday's Premier League win at Stoke. The Argentine fell to the ground as he was challenged by defender Erik Pieters and the Hammers were awarded a penalty, which put them 1-0 up in a 3-0 victory.

    Lanzini has until 18:00 GMT on Tuesday, 19 December to respond to the charge.
  • TheMadcapLaughsTheMadcapLaughs
    I have just watched it again, I don`t see it as a dive, I think he was expecting a collision and responded to that, I think it was an "anticipatory fall". I do think that a review process is the right way to go, and retrospective bans are the right action to take, hopefully this will stamp out diving and cheating. However, this charge is one of "deceiving the referee". What if you claim a corner, knowing full well you touched the ball last, (happens with countless throw ins and corners) and said corner leads to a goal. Surely the player claiming the corner can also be charged with "deceiving the referee". There are many grey areas with this and whenever incidents are to be judged they need to be clear cut, this isn`t clear cut IMO.
  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    If he gets punished, it's fair enough.

    However, I'll be watching very closely for some consistency from the FA on this issue.
  • Expat_HammerExpat_Hammer
    OCS, of course he'll get punished, we haven't been punished for any thing recently so it's only to be expected ;whistle
  • YeoldhammerYeoldhammer
    Does Hernandez take Manu's spot ? and does the ban account for cup games also ? in which case he will miss the Newcastle game.
  • jay_in_cptjay_in_cpt
    Can't have any complaints IMO.
    Hope club just accept it & move on..
    He can be ready & waiting for our Boxing Day game away at Bournemouth
  • TheMadcapLaughsTheMadcapLaughs
    One thing that annoys me with this retrospective thing is that Dele Alli cannot be retrospectively punished because the ref saw it and carded him "accordingly". Everyone to a man believes he should have seen red, the tackle was a leg breaker and potentially career ending. Surely the rules need to change so that an incident like this can also be brought before a panel. Madness otherwise.
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    TheMadcapLaughs said:

    However, this charge is one of "deceiving the referee". What if you claim a corner, knowing full well you touched the ball last, (happens with countless throw ins and corners) and said corner leads to a goal. Surely the player claiming the corner can also be charged with "deceiving the referee". There are many grey areas with this and whenever incidents are to be judged they need to be clear cut, this isn`t clear cut IMO.

    You can only be charged under the rules as they stand, for a breach of the laws of the game. Until they change the rules, claiming a corner, or an offside or whatever isn't against the rules as they stand.

    So I have to disagree. This (charge) really is clear cut.
  • TheMadcapLaughsTheMadcapLaughs
    Mrs G, but the charge is one of deceiving the referee, did Lanzini dive, did his legs give way, was he taking evasive action. No one knows but Lanzini. Shin a ball off for a goal kick but appeal for a corner is as blatant as it gets.
  • Cuz1Cuz1
    He be banned we West Ham, as for Kane and ali imo Kane’s was an over the top typical forward as for Ali well I will say it, overrated childish petulant thug who again imo should never wear the England shirt again he to me just goes looking for trouble and not be missed if not picked he’s good but struts about like he’s great not a fan if you hadn’t guessed !!!!!
  • IronHerbIronHerb
    Not sure he will be banned for the Arsenal game. He has until 6pm tomorrow to appeal so no punishment will be meted out before then and as we kick off less than 3 hours later I'm not sure there will be sufficient time.

    As you can see I'm very unsure. ;biggrin
  • NEoldironNEoldiron
    edited December 2017
    This is interesting, up until January this year, we're not even on the list, but Stoke are ;angry

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/row-zed/revealed-premier-league-teams-worst-9643002
  • Slaven_Cups_His_BeardSlaven_Cups_His_Beard
    Expat_Hammer said:

    Next name Slizzy ?

    and it wasn't a dive, so there ;pokeouttongueinjestsmiley

    Looks like the FA disagree mate
  • grey_til_I_dyegrey_til_I_dye
    Slizzy

    Yeah, coz we all have a lot of faith in that mob...
  • TwistandShoutTwistandShout
    I'll accept the 2 game ban.... If everyone else is treated the same. Zaha dives 2-3 times a game. In fact he 'won' 2 penalties the other day yet wasn't charged?
  • Slaven_Cups_His_BeardSlaven_Cups_His_Beard
    What annoys me is that once again the law / rule makers have got this wrong.....

    While I’ll applaud the fact divers and cheats should be be punished, how the heck can the likes of Kane and more importantly Deli Alli get away with those shocking tackles just because the ref gives them a yellow?

    Punishing a club / player after the fact for a dive does nothing to help the club affected by the penalty, in fact it could hurt them more than once as the culprit is now not playing against a teams rivals.

    The sooner video official comes in the better, I hate the fact we’ve reached that point but the game is too fast, too much at stake and has too much tv scrutiny not to now.
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    edited December 2017
    TwistandShout said:

    I'll accept the 2 game ban.... If everyone else is treated the same. Zaha dives 2-3 times a game. In fact he 'won' 2 penalties the other day yet wasn't charged?

    The panel reviewed it and - as he wasn't charged - we can deduce that the 3 panel members did not all agree that he dived. (The panel members view the evidence independently, and there has to be unanimity that it was a dive.)

    Plus, whether or not Zaha dives at other times, the current laws of the game only provide or a review if the 'dive' leads to a penalty or a sending off.
  • IronHerbIronHerb
    What about the Brighton player who made the most outrageous dive against Burnley where nothing was given but lives to dive another day. Why isn't 'attempting to deceive the ref' not punishable?
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    edited December 2017
    I have forwarded your question to Fifa ;ok

    Although, in some cases it is ... a ref can punish a player for diving during the game.)
  • claretandblueskyclaretandbluesky
    The FA are the worst thing about football and once again they shine a light on it by a questionable decision regarding Lanzini whilst Ali will line up for Tottenham scot free next time. The conclusion I make is that they would rather players like Ali go unpunished than bring the quality of their referee into question. Why is this absurd rule of 'the referee saw it' even in existence? he saw it but possibly did not apply the rules, he is at fault if so.

    Put the Ali tackle to a three man panel and I bet they take a lot less time coming to that judgment than Lanzini's, so why do they retrospectively punish one but not the other? because one says you conned the ref and the other says the ref is inept....... just looking after their own so not fit for purpose.
  • Expat_HammerExpat_Hammer
    Mrs G, did the forward to FIFA include the brown envelope ?
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    claretandbluesky said:

    Why is this absurd rule of 'the referee saw it' even in existence?

    That rule has been amended.

    The disciplinary panels look at a range of things that the ref 'saw' during the game. Just not everything.

    I for one don't think we should have a panel basically re-referring everything in the game in slo-mo the next day.

    I do, though, think the things currently 'reviewable' need to be changed.

    I also think we need video technology to help refs, for the reasons Izzy mentioned earlier.
  • claretandblueskyclaretandbluesky
    I would agree that you can't re visit throw ins etc but significant decisions of which the two I have compared are both significant and potentially could change the course of the game. Although to be fair even if Spurs were allowed to play the rest of the match with two Dele Ali's let alone lose one they would still have lost. The next team who play Spurs however should benefit from his absence.

    For me significant match changing decisions and things missed by the ref revisited, there can easily be rule that states anything deemed significant can be retrospectively punished. I feel they want to deflect as much criticism as possible from referees at the expense of justice and consistency. We all know refs will make mistakes and accept that but we feel a lot less vexed when revisited consistently.

    While I am at it, fining a manager who dares suggest the referee was appalling is just wrong, if you insist they stand in front of a camera then let them appraise the game properly. The referees are not made of glass.

    Right I better go for a sit down now and take some deep breaths.
  • SuzanneClaretSuzanneClaret
    edited December 2017
    The FA don't want to over rule one of their ref's so incidents like the Ali yellow - should have been a red - card won't get looked at.

    But, the diving / penalty award can - after all what is the poor ref to do if a player cons him.

    What happens if the ref just gets it wrong, a player falls over but doesn't appeal to the ref but a penalty is awarded?

    #confussed

    ;puzzled
This discussion has been closed.