Hi all, been a long time since I last posted a message, but have been viewing this forum regularly. As previous posters has mention think this forum gives a good balance view on our beloved hammers issue. This is my thoughts on the issue. Moyes is not my first choice, but will give him a chance and get behind him. reading and seeing the views from other hammer supporters I think if he does not get of to a good start think they will turn quickly. At this moment in time, I think he is the type of manager we need. It does look like this team could do with some organisation and raising the squad fitness levels and I think Moyes will do that. I hope Moyes gets of to a good start to hopefully start the process of winning over the fans.
If this backfires it will likely be one of two reasons
1 ) the whole club and it’s owners are one big circus act and the whole place is toxic (which I guess some fans may believe to be the case) - in another words another Sunderland
2 ) Moyes himself is a complete disaster as a manager (which many fans believe to be the case)
Been watching loads of live PL shows today, very few think we have made a wise decision apart from his ex players and odd few... He has failed at his last 3 clubs, anyone arguing that , well sorry IMO it's fact... But I still will give him the benefit, for now... But I do fear this is a huge mistake
Well yeh, the Everton ex army.. Didn't see any ex Sunderland or his Spanish team , or even Man U for that matter, so we going back to quite a few years who actually worked with him, apart from Charlie Adam ;doh
He has failed at his last 3 clubs, anyone arguing that , well sorry IMO it's fact...
This does need context.
He 'failed' at Man Utd by not being as good as Red Nose but was in fact better than VanGrumpy. I'd have been please to finish the season where they did under Moyes.
He 'failed' in Spain but not many British managers excel over there.
He 'failed' at Sunderland along with many many others - Sunderland's fall is all down to their owners and the way the club is run.
He said he "deeply regrets" making the comment and later apologised to Sparks, who did not make a complaint.
Writing in her Sun column in April, West Ham's vice-chairman Karren Brady said Moyes' words were "just another brilliant example of the pressure women are under to laugh off these everyday moments of sexism as a joke".
She added: "The threat to give someone a slap, no matter how you look at it, is aggressive. It is not banter. And it is not OK.
"I would like to think that any man who worked for me - no matter how wound up they feel by a reporter who is simply doing her job well - would not threaten to slap a woman.
"One of things I find most objectionable in this whole story is his reference to Sparks as being a 'girl', when he said he had apologised to her.
"She's not a girl. She is a woman and a professional. To call someone a girl is belittling, disrespectful and a real indication that you don't see her as an equal.
"Hopefully the penny has dropped for him that it's not OK to patronise, intimidate and threaten women and treat them as if they are imposters in a man's world."
This taken from The beeb today , so I guess that Ms Brady took some convincing or accepted he realised he mucked up... Suzanne, I understand where u coming from but still no change in end result ...
i think he has something to prove and i do honestly believe he will make us hard to beat and more solid formation going forward in packs not the whole team chasing the ball around like we have seen this season under Bilic.
The Liverpool game was a classic example leaving only cresswell back for there 3rd 4th goal's madness , if your legs cannot get you back you shouldn't go forward imo
It will be the same end result until he gets the defenders playing together not as individuals .
;hmm How about we put all our defenders into a dark room ,lock the door for 48 hours and see if they bond ,or we put all the players in there and see what happens ;biggrin
Lord knows, women have a far harder time than men in the world, so I have every sympathy with Brady's general position, but in that particular instance I think she has got the wrong end of the stick.
Moyes may have been stupid, but wasn't, imo, being sexist.
In fact, you could argue that he was treating the reporter exactly as he would a man, and ignoring her sex altogether.
And as Suze says, not sure a genuine feminist would find it in them to write for the Sun.
I still believe it was just banter but gone are the days where you can actually go to work and say something as banter and get blown out of proportion, I’ve had things said by women and men to me as banter and taken it that way saw the interview and still believe that it was a joke to a remark she made
I don't think the original comment (re slap) was sexist, but I do have sympathy with KBs dislike of the idea that 'slapping' someone (of any gender) could be funny, and I'm never keen on 'girls' as a term when women would be more accurate and less belittling. Football, though, is tricky in that regard, as the men are often 'boys' .. so it can (in some circumstances and scenarios) be a consistent usage. (Never 'Ladies' though - hate that!)
I do think context is important. And the relationship between the principals ... I understand DM and the journalist are friends, so what he said has to be taken in that context too - there may be an in-joke, for example.
For me, it is clear he misjudged the tone to take in a professional/work setting. Further than that, I can't go. I did, though, feel that it was jumped on by the press and there was a lot of faux outrage expressed. Not so say hypocritical, in some cases.
suz/cuz.. my take on it is I think someone may not mean it as sexism, and think its only banter. They'd be wrong. Banter doesn't prevent it being sexist, racist etc. But if someone did only mean it as a joke/banter, I'd hope that when the insulting aspect of the comment was pointed out, rather than respond with 'its just banter, no sense of humour, you can't say anything these days' type rejoinder, they'd just say sorry.
Moyes will do a reasonable job, he has experience, a good squad and the club will over compensate in January. The question will be what happens in the summer and what is the overall strategy/vision for the club, etc, etc. Stuart Pearce will be a good appointment and someone alot of fans will like having in the set up.
Comments
All five of those clubs have been/are continuing to be in some cases appalling run.
I don not believe we are in the same ball park as them.
1 ) the whole club and it’s owners are one big circus act and the whole place is toxic (which I guess some fans may believe to be the case) - in another words another Sunderland
2 ) Moyes himself is a complete disaster as a manager (which many fans believe to be the case)
It's gonna take a long time before that feels comfortable - but I'm up for it! ;scarf
You'd have to hope so.
The bottom half of the table this year is full of pretty mediocre teams, and our squad should be better than most of them over a season.
He has failed at his last 3 clubs, anyone arguing that , well sorry IMO it's fact...
But I still will give him the benefit, for now...
But I do fear this is a huge mistake
Didn't see any ex Sunderland or his Spanish team , or even Man U for that matter, so we going back to quite a few years who actually worked with him, apart from
Charlie Adam ;doh
He 'failed' at Man Utd by not being as good as Red Nose but was in fact better than VanGrumpy. I'd have been please to finish the season where they did under Moyes.
He 'failed' in Spain but not many British managers excel over there.
He 'failed' at Sunderland along with many many others - Sunderland's fall is all down to their owners and the way the club is run.
Bilic failed and that (imho) had little to *nothing to do with G/S/B and how the club is run.
*I am aware others in here will disagree.
Writing in her Sun column in April, West Ham's vice-chairman Karren Brady said Moyes' words were "just another brilliant example of the pressure women are under to laugh off these everyday moments of sexism as a joke".
She added: "The threat to give someone a slap, no matter how you look at it, is aggressive. It is not banter. And it is not OK.
"I would like to think that any man who worked for me - no matter how wound up they feel by a reporter who is simply doing her job well - would not threaten to slap a woman.
"One of things I find most objectionable in this whole story is his reference to Sparks as being a 'girl', when he said he had apologised to her.
"She's not a girl. She is a woman and a professional. To call someone a girl is belittling, disrespectful and a real indication that you don't see her as an equal.
"Hopefully the penny has dropped for him that it's not OK to patronise, intimidate and threaten women and treat them as if they are imposters in a man's world."
This taken from
The beeb today , so I guess that Ms Brady took some convincing or accepted he realised he mucked up...
Suzanne, I understand where u coming from but still no change in end result ...
You can not choose when to have morals and when to not, or when to be offended and when to turn a blind eye.
The Liverpool game was a classic example leaving only cresswell back for there 3rd 4th goal's madness , if your legs cannot get you back you shouldn't go forward imo
It will be the same end result until he gets the defenders playing together not as individuals .
Just think
It's ironic we end up hiring him
Moyes may have been stupid, but wasn't, imo, being sexist.
In fact, you could argue that he was treating the reporter exactly as he would a man, and ignoring her sex altogether.
And as Suze says, not sure a genuine feminist would find it in them to write for the Sun.
Sexism - be it low level or not - is NOT BANTER!
It is for many women, intimidating and belittling.
I do think context is important. And the relationship between the principals ... I understand DM and the journalist are friends, so what he said has to be taken in that context too - there may be an in-joke, for example.
For me, it is clear he misjudged the tone to take in a professional/work setting. Further than that, I can't go. I did, though, feel that it was jumped on by the press and there was a lot of faux outrage expressed. Not so say hypocritical, in some cases.