Brexit: the next stage. Deal or No Deal? (and the General Election)

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Comments

  • YeoldhammerYeoldhammer
    Can't say I agree with that approach in politics. It should be a Mutual agreement by both sides. "the if your nice they will be nice to you" doesn't work in politics.
  • VorselaarhammerVorselaarhammer
    As someone who lives abroad but is not aloud to vote, I hope more than expect someone to think of me....
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    Vorse, why aren't you allowed to vote? Didn't the '15 year rule' get scrapped?
  • VorselaarhammerVorselaarhammer
    Hi Mrs Grey as far as I know not, I did a investigation last time for the Brexit vote.

    Has it changed since?? I will have a look. I know there was a petition which I signed to raise this in Parliament.

    I am actually now considering moving back just to be able to start voting...
  • ASLEFshruggedASLEFshrugged
    Yeoldhammer said:

    Can't say I agree with that approach in politics. It should be a Mutual agreement by both sides. "the if your nice they will be nice to you" doesn't work in politics.

    Whoever is in No.10 after 8 June won't make the decision on the status of UK citizens living in the EU, that decision will be made by the EU countries so there's no point Labour making promises about UK citizens in the EU that they can't keep.
    MrsGrey said:

    Vorse, why aren't you allowed to vote? Didn't the '15 year rule' get scrapped?

    The 15 year rule is still in place

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/21/britons-abroad-denied-uk-general-election-vote-tories

    The Tories said they'd scrap it last October but they've not got around to it yet

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/07/expats-given-vote-for-life-uk-elections-government-says
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    Aslef ;ok

    I knew it was being scrapped, but had assumed it would have been done by now.
  • ASLEFshruggedASLEFshrugged
    Mrs G - the wheels of government turn slowly.......
  • VorselaarhammerVorselaarhammer
    So annoying, I bought into the idea of living aboard but still contributing to the UK...
  • IronHerbIronHerb
    Halfway down the article CBS provided a link to
    Guarantee the legal status of the three million EU nationals living in the UK on its first day in office

    Press for a reciprocal guarantee for the 1.2 million Britons living on the continent
    Its helps if you read the whole thing.



    You can press as much as you like but when you have already ceded one of your bargaining chips it makes it all the more difficult.
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    billybondsbeard said:

    I'm not proud of myself though - I swore at a Tory.

    ;biggrin


  • NEoldironNEoldiron
    edited April 2017
    bbb, tactical voting you say ;hmm. Have you seen this?

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/how-to-stop-the-tories_uk_58f89312e4b0cb086d7e4de6

    https://www.tactical2017.com/
  • AdMeus_CaputFiliusAdMeus_CaputFilius
    Labour are the worst choice IMO, they are still committed to Brexit but their version of it will see us still in everything and contributing but with no say, pulling cap and bending knee saying "thank 'ee kind sir/ma'am" every time they force a decision us - which they will.

    The Lib Dems/Greens/SNP if they get the chance will seek to have the A50 activation withdrawn and ignore the wishes of the UK majority, making all sorts of concessions to wheedle their way back in.

    Both cases will damage our economy for years to come, as the EU will then manipulate things to get their hands on all the wealth generating industries/business we have left and moving them to other EU countries (read that as France/Germany).
    --------------
    If we have a weak economy then the NHS, Education and all other public services will suffer, these can only be improved and have more spending from more tax from a strong economy, not by punishing Companies through higher Corporation and other taxes (which will drive them out of the UK), but by increasing tax across the board. This year my Council Tax went up an additional 4%, do I mind? no because it is all going to be spent on social care services in my area, it's only an additional £4.25p a month. I was not bothered about an increase in NI by 1% as it was all for the NHS - a service we all use so should all pay for through NI - and it is not exactly a big rise for most people. To get it scrapped because it broke a manifesto pledge when IMO it is justified as circumstances have change was more despicable than braking the pledge - how often does that happen. Think how many more tens or hundreds of millions would now be available to the NHS budget - sorry for the rant, back to the subject....
    --------------------

    All of these (and some other parties) seem to be wilfully ignorant that Brexit is a two way negotiation and the EU have made their starting point clear on many occasions, so for them to say "we want to keep or maintain this, this and this" without any indication of what they would give up in return (in some cases believing they will not have to make concessions in return - SNP in particular) when the EU have already said "you can't", is frankly a ridiculous position to take and deliberately misleading the voting public.

    Like it or not, if you want out of the EU with any sort of Brexit that benefits the UK, TM and the Tories are the only option to get a deal reflecting what the people who voted leave want, hence the reason they will win the GE.
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    edited April 2017
    AdMeus_CaputFilius said:



    The Lib Dems/Greens/SNP if they get the chance will seek to have the A50 activation withdrawn and ignore the wishes of the UK majority, making all sorts of concessions to wheedle their way back in.

    In the interests of accuracy, let's be clear that a minority - not a majority - of registered voters voted to leave.

    Fact.
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    edited April 2017
    AdMeus_CaputFilius said:

    I was not bothered about an increase in NI by 1% as it was all for the NHS - a service we all use so should all pay for through NI - and it is not exactly a big rise for most people. To get it scrapped because it broke a manifesto pledge when IMO it is justified as circumstances have change was more despicable than braking the pledge - how often does that happen. Think how many more tens or hundreds of millions would now be available to the NHS budget

    Erm, is that ring-fenced, and guaranteed. For ever?

    Have you got proof of that?

    I don't think so.

    The govt hardly ever ring-fence revenue ...





    ;hmm Maybe it was written on the side of a bus, in which case of course it's a promise. ;wink
  • epsom_bubblesepsom_bubbles
    I've stayed out of this so far, but something on the news last night, really got my blood boiling. Who the 'heck' does Gina Miller think she is. Whatever your political persuasion, or reasons for voting, they are your choices. Using crowd funding, she has set up a group to educate and guide us 'unwashed' how to best vote in the election. If she wants to affect the outcome then stand for election, or she should mind her own business. Only my opinion mind you
  • grey_til_I_dyegrey_til_I_dye
    edited April 2017
    epsom

    I'm not sure that fairly reflects her stated aims or intentions.

    As for 'stand for election or shut up' - that doesn't say much for the ideal of a participatory democracy, does it?
  • ASLEFshruggedASLEFshrugged
    epsom - if Gina Miller stood as a candidate she could only effect one constituency, by campaigning for tactical voting she can effect a lot more.

    She's raised over £300k through crowd funding with donations from over 10k people, Arron Banks spent £7.5m of his own money to support Brexit, which is more democratic?

    Blair has refused to back Corbyn for Prime Minister, I'm sure Corbyn is relieved...
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    epsom_bubbles said:

    If she wants to affect the outcome then stand for election, or she should mind her own business.

    I have to disagree with you there. Lots of people do stuff to affect the outcomes of elections, other than stand themselves. Armies of campaign workers, fundraisers etc.
  • NEoldironNEoldiron
    I just came across this review; the first two paragraphs are worth noting.
    https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2017/apr/01/decline-fall-review-jack-whitehall-evelyn-waugh-pennyweather
  • claretandblueskyclaretandbluesky
    edited April 2017
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39737216

    I think someone needs tell her that she has no hand to play, she is completely at the mercy of the other player.

    The picture is great as I think it sums up how most countries in the world are looking at us. Even May's face seems to say 'I know, but what can I do now'
  • NEoldironNEoldiron
    Anybody seen this, a little worrying.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/francescoppola/2017/04/30/the-uk-government-is-completely-deluded-about-brexit/#69e2cbba4f04
  • Expat_HammerExpat_Hammer
    Merely the opinion of another remoaner, IMO of course ;wink
  • OutcastLondonerOutcastLondoner
    She's having a disastrous campaign. There was a video of her door-stepping and not a single person opened their doors (on a bank holiday), while one person already standing outside their home just flat-out said no.
  • claretandblueskyclaretandbluesky
    The impossible position she finds herself in is becoming clearer and she knows it. The arrogance of the brexiteers in her party and their imagination of the all powerful UK, will likely get what it deserves when they eventually have to go to a negotiating table with nothing dressed up as something, and then of course blame someone else when they come back with nothing.
  • NEoldironNEoldiron
    Expat, did you actually read the article? Nothing to do with Remainers at all.
  • ASLEFshruggedASLEFshrugged
    I'm starting to get the feeling that Theresa May has decided that that Brexit is going to be a disaster, she doesn't want to go down in history as the Prime Minister that ruined the country and is trying her best to lose the election.
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    ;wahoo
  • AdMeus_CaputFiliusAdMeus_CaputFilius
    OK, if you want to be pedantic, the majority of registered voters who could be bothered to vote, voted to leave, those that didn't have only themselves to blame.

    A lesser minority of registered voters voted to remain - FACT
  • AdMeus_CaputFiliusAdMeus_CaputFilius
    MrsGrey said:

    AdMeus_CaputFilius said:

    I was not bothered about an increase in NI by 1% as it was all for the NHS - a service we all use so should all pay for through NI - and it is not exactly a big rise for most people. To get it scrapped because it broke a manifesto pledge when IMO it is justified as circumstances have change was more despicable than braking the pledge - how often does that happen. Think how many more tens or hundreds of millions would now be available to the NHS budget

    Erm, is that ring-fenced, and guaranteed. For ever?

    Have you got proof of that?

    I don't think so.

    The govt hardly ever ring-fence revenue ...





    ;hmm Maybe it was written on the side of a bus, in which case of course it's a promise. ;wink

    Well all I can tell you was what I saw/heard on the ITV news, that the 1% rise in NI was all for the NHS - perhaps if it had been agreed then the ring fencing and guarantee would have been given - lots of things are written on the sides of busses, most if not all of is advertising so why would it be a promise if it was?
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    You say pedantic. I say accurate.




    You say those who didn't vote 'couldn't be bothered'. Have you got any actual information on why they didn't vote?

    If not, you should probably (but obviously its your choice) stop ascribing to the non-voters motives which you have made up.
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