The UK is Out - New PM - and whither now for Article 50

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Comments

  • AdMeus_CaputFiliusAdMeus_CaputFilius
    chicagohammer said:

    everything has a silver lining - if we do vote ourselves out of the EU - maybe we can turn to the special relationship we have with the USA and President Trump.

    ;sofa

    AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! ;run
  • thornburyironthornburyiron
    Even Americans aren't stupid enough to vote him in are they? It just shows how useless Obama has been as a president the last 2 years.
  • baracks_a_hammerbaracks_a_hammer
    Thorn

    They did manage to vote in George W.

    Twice.
  • MoojorMoojor
    I'm starting to look in to the actual reasons for staying or leaving as I'm pretty uninformed about any sort of actual facts about the possible outcomes of either.

    But currently in the "in" camp, mostly because I can't stand the term "Brexit". Why the hell do we have this need to combine multiple words in to one?

  • deehammerdeehammer
    Moojor
    This is "media speak" not anything else!
  • TheMadcapLaughsTheMadcapLaughs
    As much as I hate to ally myself with the likes of Farage, Duncan-Smith, Gove, Boris, the EDL and the hole screaming gamut of flag waving, jingoistic, insular Trumpesque type people (shudders) I find myself coming down firmly on the "out" side. For as much as I would generally take the opposing view to anything and everything all of the above believe in and stand for, I find the EU, as it currently stands, probably the most undemocratic, stagnant, bloated, gluttonous, behemoth of an "organisation" in the history of such organisations. A single, borderless market, using a single common currency is a simple and worthy idea. It doesn`t need thousands and thousands of grey suits riding on a runaway gravy train to make it work. The level of waste, bureaucracy and for want of a better word gumpf generated by Brussels is mind numbingly staggering. There is one thing I hate above all else, and that is piffle, I am sorry, but the EU is awash with piffle, I would like my country to distance itself from Brussels and this excess of Euorpiffle and then once out take a long hard look at its own layers of needless, pointless bureaucracy, quangos, committees and government and wield the axe accordingly. I have always supported closer links with Europe, however, once the men in grey latch on, it is only a matter of time before these leech like creatures infest, multiply and suck the life out of what should be, and could be a worthy and above all simple animal. For this reason, a big OUT. ;scarf
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    edited February 2016
    So can I put you down as 'undecided'?
  • Expat_HammerExpat_Hammer
    ;lol
  • grey_til_I_dyegrey_til_I_dye
    Eastcote

    I absolutely agree that it is the responsibility of those who will vote to inform themselves to the best of their ability.

    I also don't think most of them will.

    Are you suggesting that people can't be trusted to make the choice?
    Yes.
    the same people that elect UK Governments every 5 years?
    Yes (although given the bizarre nature of the UK election system, what tends to happen is that 2/3 of the people who vote don't end up with the government they tried to elect.)

    Are you also suggesting voters vote on party lines?
    Yes
  • grey_til_I_dyegrey_til_I_dye
    Eastcote

    Not sure why?
  • simoncsimonc
    thornburyiron said:

    Even Americans aren't stupid enough to vote him in are they? It just shows how useless Obama has been as a president the last 2 years.

    Make that 8 thornburyiron, biggest political regret i have, voting for him the first time round, only thing he is good at is spending other peoples money
  • billybondsbeardbillybondsbeard
    Really good article by Andrew Rawnsley in the Guardian today. Makes the point that about a third of the electorate are defo 'in', another 3rd are defo 'out', and the fight as ever will be among the undecideds. He makes the point that much of the wrangling in Brussels was about £35m of child benefit payments either way, which equates to less than 30 minutes of the govenments annual spend !!!, or a rounding up error in one of Osbournes budgets !.
    He takes a look at the so called leaders of the 'out 'campaign , and says do you really want to be associated with the like of Gove, Galloway, and Farage, who are currently all arguing about who's 'out' group will lead the campaign, and thus will get their hands on the funding for TV and Press ads etc.
    he asks the question, what happens after a 'no' vote - and that it will be a bit of a gamble, as 'we dont know what we dont know' - to quote Donald Rumsfeld.

    We need to be careful - we vote in a government for only around 5 years - this will be a generational choice, and, I think it will be a generational choice in another way, as the vote will go along age based lines, the young voters having known nothing else, and the older voters yearning for the 'good old days'..... ;hmm
  • baracks_a_hammerbaracks_a_hammer
    Well wasn't it all supposed to be Armageddon when we decided not to join the Euro? Look how that turned out.
  • MoojorMoojor
    Wait, Gove is for us leaving the EU. That's made my decision easy. No need to do any sort of research.
    In for me. Anything that fool believes is a good idea can only actually be a very bad idea for everyone else.
  • grey_til_I_dyegrey_til_I_dye
    Mooj

    Now that's what I call an informed decision... ;wink
  • Expat_HammerExpat_Hammer
    baracks_a_hammer said:

    Well wasn't it all supposed to be Armageddon when we decided not to join the Euro? Look how that turned out.

    I remember in the early 90's when we tracked the euro, and interest rates went up three times in one day.
  • MoojorMoojor
    oh no....Jeremy hunt is for staying in....
  • SuzanneClaretSuzanneClaret
    ;nonono

    My brain can't cope with agreeing with him....


    NNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

    image
  • Giant_HammerGiant_Hammer
    Moojor said:

    Wait, Gove is for us leaving the EU. That's made my decision easy. No need to do any sort of research.
    In for me. Anything that fool believes is a good idea can only actually be a very bad idea for everyone else.

    No disrespect intended Moojor, but that is what is worrying me. That people will make up their minds simply because they dislike an individual.
    I'm ok cos I dislike all politicians. ;wink ;lol
  • baracks_a_hammerbaracks_a_hammer
    Giant

    Luckily though Giant, there are "questionable" characters on both side of the fence

    Mooj though is now outed as a fully signed up member of Sturgeon's fan club ;lol
  • baracks_a_hammerbaracks_a_hammer


    Luckily though Giant, there are "questionable" characters on both side of the fence

    Mooj though is now outed as a fully signed up member of Sturgeon's fan club ;lol
  • Giant_HammerGiant_Hammer
    ;lol
  • MoojorMoojor
    Giant_Hammer said:

    Moojor said:

    Wait, Gove is for us leaving the EU. That's made my decision easy. No need to do any sort of research.
    In for me. Anything that fool believes is a good idea can only actually be a very bad idea for everyone else.

    No disrespect intended Moojor, but that is what is worrying me. That people will make up their minds simply because they dislike an individual.
    I'm ok cos I dislike all politicians. ;wink ;lol
    Totally agree, which supports Grey's point that this stuff really shouldn't be put out to vote by the public who really aren't going to research it in any way shape or form and just vote for or against based on personal feelings rather than what is best for the country.
    Though I jest about voting "in" just because Gove on the "out" side. I do fully intend to research what is the best option. This sort of decision is going to affect my daughter and many generations to come.
  • Giant_HammerGiant_Hammer
    Moojor ;ok
  • baracks_a_hammerbaracks_a_hammer
    Mooj

    By your logic, don't bother with general elections either and let's just settle for a communist state??

  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    Monarchy? ;hmm
  • baracks_a_hammerbaracks_a_hammer
    Dynasty a la Kim Jong ;hmm
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    edited February 2016
    Benevolent dictatorship? ;hmm



    ;biggrin
  • SuzanneClaretSuzanneClaret
    Rock, paper, scissors.
  • WhitehorsehammerWhitehorsehammer
    I have many reasons why I shall be voting to stay in, but here are a couple of personal ones.

    I have two daughters, both in their late twenties, one works for a Danish company the other for a Belgium company, both are UK based.
    They, and others in the company move regularly and freely between the UK and Belgium and Denmark, there is a mix of those nationalities in the offices here and in Europe. They also move goods in their own vans back and forth a couple of times a week. This all works smoothly and has done for years.
    If we leave will their Dutch and Belgium colleagues be able to continue working here and will my daughters be allowed to work there with the end of free movement of labour? Also trade tariffs will need to somehow be negotiated for the movement of goods and this will require border checks and no doubt lots of additional paperwork. Both firms are deeply worried that their successful companies could be seriously affected by the change and this is already holding them back on new investment.

    Many of my wife's family are farmers and they benefit from farm subsidies which are EU based and calculated. The levels have mostly been set over the years by the pressure of French farmers. I know we pay into the fund but its seems that most farmers (and the NFU) believe that any replacement scheme by the UK government would not be as beneficial as the EU payments. Many farmers (not all) find it hard to keep going and loosing these subsidies would cause many problems.

    Just my own views.
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