Nuno - twist or stick?

Fortuneseeker · October 25

Pray tell @IronHerb?

ASLEF, That's not to say there are now better managers available as we are known for not choosing to buy managers out of their contracts?

jay_in_cpt · October 25

@ASLEFshrugged perhaps there are some managers now available who weren’t previously.
Managers that have left their last positions.
I’m sure there would be a few wanting to prove a point, but who knows, like I said many times before it’s not my problem / decision to make.

That’s for the owners 👍🏻⚒️

jay_in_cpt · October 25

For the ‘twist’ group we are not alone 🤣⚒️
https://www.livescore.com/en/news/football/england-championship/could-nuno-espirito-santo-be-handed-the-west-ham-sack-after-dramatic-southampton-win-saints-marching/

Lukerz · October 25

Stick - it’s not even a tough call IMO

buffybegood · October 25

Fortuneseeker said:
Who are the expensive mistakes buffy?
One of our players is currently the top goalscorer in the Bundesliga!

I'll give you Kilman for starters. And yes, Fullkrug was a big mistake as he's not suited to play in the PL, certainly not for a team that isn't dominating possession. There's a whole host of players that we paid a lot of money for that NES inherited that weren't really any use to him, such as JWP, Todibo and Guilhermes, there's no getting away from the fact that our recruitment has largely been dreadful for far too long. Yes, we get some right, but we can't afford the howlers that we've made in the transfer market.

Fortuneseeker · October 25

I can’t argue with Kilman. Fullkrug isn’t the first good striker to be sawn off by the managers tactics 👍.

buffybegood · October 25

Fortuneseeker said:
I can’t argue with Kilman. Fullkrug isn’t the first good striker to be sawn off by the managers tactics 👍.

But if they don't work for the tactics we employ, then they're mistakes. Not necessarily bad players, but mistakes nonetheless.

Fortuneseeker · October 25

Yes buffy big mistakes by whoever does the scouting - Haller, Scamacca & Fullkrug all strikers who could have been good signings for us but didn't play the way the manager wanted.

buffybegood · October 25

Bearing in mind this is now a discussion on NES, all I was saying is that he's been really hindered by so much of the recruitment that happened before he arrived.

Yeoldhammer · 12:54AM

Was done with Nuno last season when he bottled it with going 5 at the back in a must win game against Newcastle, that we could have got relegated before the final game had Spurs beaten Chelsea. Definition of bottling it to set up your team with 5 at the back in a must win game shows me everything I need to know about the managers approach to the real crunch games.

As far as this season goes however, I am not too fussed on his current position at the club, I just want to see most of the players moved on. I get why the club kept him and have no qualms with the clubs decision even if my personal decision is the opposite.

Magassa / Alvarez / Taty / Areola (Having 100k+ in wages on a keeper on the bench is ludicrous) / Todibo get out perm / Cornet / Fullkrug get out perm / Mavro (sold end of season regardless of going up or not) / Kilman (sold end of season regardless of going up or not) / AWB get out perm / Boiro (send him back).

From a personal point of view I am quite happy for Nuno to stay around to clear out this lot then move him on for someone who can build a proper squad and doesn't bottle the crunch games with some awful formations and selections.

Club has to focus on getting in players who have a minimum work rate that matches Pablo's across the entire pitch, any player who cannot match a similar level of work rate, isn't fit for the club regardless of their "supposed ability."
Once that basic necessity has been reached we can then look at discussing players of the ilk that Brentford / Brighton / Bournemouth sides sign, technical flair players with said workrate to boot to improve the team. If it has to coincide with a promise that said player can bounce in 2 years time, I am perfectly fine with such an arrangement I.E if Austbo wants to move higher up to bigger clubs and he produces the goods over 2 seasons then that's completely fine in my books, at least we have clarity for the future from both the player and club side.

jay_in_cpt · 7:27AM

buffybegood said:
Bearing in mind this is now a discussion on NES, all I was saying is that he's been really hindered by so much of the recruitment that happened before he arrived.

I agree to some extent, but then again I feel he's had long enough, had some transfer windows to sort some of it out and has sorted some of the issues out to some agree but not as much as he should have IMO.

I personally think you're being a tad too generous IMO.
He did fail to keep us up and at the moment there's not clear evidence that we'll be going straight back up, yeh we're in the mix, but will it be enough, time will tell I guess.

As much as I'd like him gone, I do understand right now probably isn't the right/perfect time, but as said already, come Xmas will be crunch time for me.....That's enough time for him to have proved his worth IMO, but I expect the board to stick with him and yet again throw a fair bit of money his way to spend come the January transfer window.....A larger amount compared to other clubs anyhow...

Saturday coming v WBA won't also be an easy game IMO, lose that and I expect some more of the crowd to turn......

Lukerz · 7:46AM

I only really judge him from January, as he was managing the abysmal squad that Potter & Lop put together under the genius of TS. Have to remember that 39 points, in most seasons, is enough to stay up. His results have been decent since he had a first transfer window & brought in Taty, Pablo & Disasi. Our start to this season has been ok, given the squad we have - albeit many didn’t believe the squad was good enough to go up in the summer.

ASLEFshrugged · 7:47AM

jay_in_cpt said:
@ASLEFshrugged perhaps there are some managers now available who weren’t previously.
Managers that have left their last positions.
I’m sure there would be a few wanting to prove a point, but who knows, like I said many times before it’s not my problem / decision to make.

That’s for the owners 👍🏻⚒️

Fortuneseeker said:
Pray tell @IronHerb?

ASLEF, That's not to say there are now better managers available as we are known for not choosing to buy managers out of their contracts?

There might be better managers available that weren’t available last season

But would they want to manage a Championship club?

We’re not a Premier League team any more and there’s no guarantee we will be a Premier League team next season

jay_in_cpt · 7:50AM

ASLEFshrugged said:

jay_in_cpt said:
@ASLEFshrugged perhaps there are some managers now available who weren’t previously.
Managers that have left their last positions.
I’m sure there would be a few wanting to prove a point, but who knows, like I said many times before it’s not my problem / decision to make.

That’s for the owners 👍🏻⚒️

Fortuneseeker said:
Pray tell @IronHerb?

ASLEF, That's not to say there are now better managers available as we are known for not choosing to buy managers out of their contracts?
There might be better managers available that weren’t available last season

But would they want to manage a Championship club?

We’re not a Premier League team any more and there’s no guarantee we will be a Premier League team next season

I personally think we're still more attractive than clubs in The PL, IMO, the likes of Hull, Ipswich, Coventry, even to some extent Palace/Fulham and Bournemouth , in size and history...IMO....

jay_in_cpt · 7:53AM

Lukerz said:
I only really judge him from January, as he was managing the abysmal squad that Potter & Lop put together under the genius of TS. Have to remember that 39 points, in most seasons, is enough to stay up. His results have been decent since he had a first transfer window & brought in Taty, Pablo & Disasi. Our start to this season has been ok, given the squad we have - albeit many didn’t believe the squad was good enough to go up in the summer.

Problem is he FAILED in his 1st task....
He agreed to take the job and he didn't do what many on here said he'd do, keep us up....
He's had IMO enough money spent to form his own team, yet he still tinkers and seems to have no clue what his starting line up looks like, he has 3 strikers but chooses his 'teacher's pet' Kante to play in that advanced role....

Anyhow, I know he's not going to go, but I also know, not on this site in particular, but there are many fans who feel the same way as I do, and that is NES is not the man to lead us forward....Hey-ho....

Fortuneseeker · 8:10AM

jay, He keeps not picking the better players he has available. There are players in his bomb squad who would improve the team. Play a different centre back as he has options to change that, put a stronger midfielder in the CDM role & attack from the start.

Barney · 8:40AM

I think part of our defensive issue is how easy teams by pass our midfield. We dont have a decent defensive midfielder IMO

Fortuneseeker · 8:51AM

The issue is Barney we have 2 in the club & NES doesn’t play either of them!

Lukerz · 9:51AM

He failed clearing up the mess of two other regimes, after coming in in October, yes…

Lukerz · 9:52AM

Btw I am not a huge fan of Nuno, I don’t have any feelings towards him, he’s a bit ‘meh’ for me, I don’t have any emotional ties to him like some other managers. I wouldn’t be gutted if he left tomorrow.

But I am trying to judge him fairly & objectively based on what has happened since he arrived, the context of the club & his previous record.

ASLEFshrugged · 10:42AM

jay_in_cpt said:

I personally think we're still more attractive than clubs in The PL, IMO, the likes of Hull, Ipswich, Coventry, even to some extent Palace/Fulham and Bournemouth , in size and history...IMO....

And that is where we disagree

I don’t see how we’re more attractive than Southampton, Middlesbrough, Wolves or West Brom

Just another ex-top flight team down in the second tier

We certainly aren’t more attractive than Bournemouth, Fulham or Palace right now and maybe that’s the problem some people have difficulty accepting

We got relegated

ASLEFshrugged · 11:33AM

I have to wonder if I’m supporting West Ham in a different dimension and others are supporting West Ham in a dimension where we’ve actually had managers who were top class

Slacker · 1:30PM

Having taken time and read the in depth the posts about Nuno and the long lists of possible replacements put forward, I have decided that losing one game in nine is grounds for his immediate dismissal.

Fortuneseeker · 2:01PM

If you only judge him from January in the Premier League it's eight losses in 19, three out of the last four which should have meant the end for him.

jay_in_cpt · 2:29PM

ASLEFshrugged said:

jay_in_cpt said:

I personally think we're still more attractive than clubs in The PL, IMO, the likes of Hull, Ipswich, Coventry, even to some extent Palace/Fulham and Bournemouth , in size and history...IMO....
And that is where we disagree

I don’t see how we’re more attractive than Southampton, Middlesbrough, Wolves or West Brom

Just another ex-top flight team down in the second tier

We certainly aren’t more attractive than Bournemouth, Fulham or Palace right now and maybe that’s the problem some people have difficulty accepting

We got relegated

That's ok, it's fine we don't see the same thing...

For me, being in London is a bonus, although London by all accounts is certainly not what it used to be, that's sad in itself.....

But I do still believe that we would be a better option than the likes of Hull, Middlesbrough, WBA, Ipswich and Coventry for sure ( even though some are in The PL right now, I'm not sure they all will be next season....)….Palace & Bournemouth we could say are similar level to us, apart from the league we're currently in...

The fact we've been in the PL for the past 14 seasons and only now find ourselves in The EFL is what it is, a poor start between Potter and a lack of skill/ bravery when needed from NES that couldn't muster the points/wins to save us.....

Your quote of "just another ex-top flight team in the second tier" IMO is way off, we haven't been out of there for nearly 15 years, that's a bit different to some of those yo-yo clubs......Oh well....

In NES we have to trust, I really hope he proves me wrong, I really do....Whether he does is another matter though , time will tell....👍🏻⚒️

Fortuneseeker · 2:45PM

jay, I expect him to get us promoted, if not we all know how that should end, but would you trust him to do anything in the PL next season?

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