Chelsea (away) Sunday 24th April 2pm Sky Sports

Lukerz

It will either be a back three or Rice, IMO.

IronHerb

Lukerz said:

It will either be a back three or Rice, IMO.

One at the back is a bit dodgy. 😁

buffybegood

Lukerz said:

It will either be a back three or Rice, IMO.

Rice will be a huge loss to the midfield so I don't see it happening tbh; if it was for a one off game, maybe, but it looks like we need a solution for much of the rest of the season so we need a better option to losing Rice from midfield.

OldCastleSwift

buffybegood said:

Lukerz said:

It will either be a back three or Rice, IMO.

Rice will be a huge loss to the midfield so I don't see it happening tbh; if it was for a one off game, maybe, but it looks like we need a solution for much of the rest of the season so we need a better option to losing Rice from midfield.

Yeah, it's whether we can trust Noble or Kral to see out the next 5-8 games in midfield.

For me, the most logical thing is to play Alese. No impact to any other player on the pitch that way.

OutcastLondoner

Play Alese but in a back three with Cresswell at LCB, I think.

A floaty false 9 attacker like Havertz might be trouble for a converted full back and then ruin their confidence for Frankfurt (who scored have some really good attackers as well). Alese is a CB but protect him by putting him in a back three. You could also put Johnson in at RCB instead but think Cresswell knows the position better and not sure he’s as good at LWB as LB anyway.

Lukerz

I must admit I don’t get the ‘we can’t lose Rice from midfield’. We absolutely can for 5 league games and two Europa League semi-finals. Rice is clearly an influential midfield player but he also doesn’t score/assist many goals and hasn’t since 2018 when he moved into the midfield role.

He may be equally influential as a CB and, if it stops us conceding goals, why not.

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

Lukerz said:

I must admit I don’t get the ‘we can’t lose Rice from midfield’. We absolutely can for 5 league games and two Europa League semi-finals. Rice is clearly an influential midfield player but he also doesn’t score/assist many goals and hasn’t since 2018 when he moved into the midfield role.

He may be equally influential as a CB and, if it stops us conceding goals, why not.

He doesn't score or assist as he's a hold8ng midfielder, arguably among the best in the world

Hes the engine of the team, he break up play and can break the lines with his running

We'd lose so much without him

Lukerz

He’s not a holding midfielder anymore. He was and does occasionally still do it but I would say that’s more Soucek now.

IronHerb

That changed a couple of months back. Rice is now playing deeper with Soucek more forward. He still ventures forward but from a deeper starting point.

OutcastLondoner

Lukerz, I don’t agree with that view. He still is crucial to making our midfield tick and actually think he’s settled back into a more defensive role in the past few weeks so Soucek can arrive in the box.

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

Staggered there’s any doubt about what Rice brings to the midfield. Of all our players he’s the most aware, the best positionally, best passer, most athletic, best tackler, best at getting us up the pitch, best dribbler.

alderz

Aside from losing Rice from midfield, you'd also be playing a completely untested centre back pairing, and a completely untested midfield pairing too. We play Rice and Soucek every single game. Having someone else in there would unbalance us massively, IMO. I think Rice would be a HUGE miss in midfield, and, for me, you don't take your best player out of his best position in your biggest games in decades.

alderz

If Diop is out, which is unconfirmed as far as I can tell, I think the only option I would want us to take it to play Alese next to Dawson. Young players need opportunities, and there is every chance he seizes it. He's the captain of the PL2 side, he's 6'4, he's 21 years old. We're not talking about a tiny child. The guy is built like a mountain.

OldCastleSwift

Is he 6'4"? Reckon he might be shorter than.

But otherwise, completely agree. At 21 he's not exactly a kid anymore, and handled himself pretty well in the EL game he played.

With the experience of Coufal, Dawson and Cresswell next to him, and Rice and Soucek in front of him, he couldn't really ask for much more for a PL debut.

alderz

OCS

I googled him and google said 6’4, I’ve just read an Athletic article and it says 6’1, so I reckon trust the Athletic

OldCastleSwift

Yeah, in the games I've seen him play he's never looked tall. Certainly not Diop tall, at any rate.

Still gets my vote though.

alderz

OldCastleSwift said:

Yeah, in the games I've seen him play he's never looked tall. Certainly not Diop tall, at any rate.

Still gets my vote though.

As I say, just read an Athletic article, and in it they interviewed some coaches about him, and one of the things that stood out was this:

Paul Simpson, ex-England U19 Manager said:

He was a quiet lad but led by example. I can’t think of a time when Aji didn’t stay behind to work on his heading. It meant a lot to him to be involved in the squad.

buffybegood

Does anyone know how far away Ogbonna is from playing? I seem to remember it being said he might be available for some games by the end of the season.

OutcastLondoner

alderz said:

OldCastleSwift said:

Yeah, in the games I've seen him play he's never looked tall. Certainly not Diop tall, at any rate.

Still gets my vote though.

As I say, just read an Athletic article, and in it they interviewed some coaches about him, and one of the things that stood out was this:

Paul Simpson, ex-England U19 Manager said:

He was a quiet lad but led by example. I can’t think of a time when Aji didn’t stay behind to work on his heading. It meant a lot to him to be involved in the squad.

Sounds like another set piece king.

alderz

buffybegood said:

Does anyone know how far away Ogbonna is from playing? I seem to remember it being said he might be available for some games by the end of the season.

According to this, Ogbonna, Zouma and Diop are all out with "no return date", so there is nothing official from the club.

https://www.premierinjuries.com/injury-table.php

ASLEFshrugged

Johnson has played once at CB against Premier League opposition, 2-1 loss in against Spurs the Cup.

Alese or Rice, play a back three with Johnson and Coufal as wing backs

alderz

ASLEFshrugged said:

Johnson has played once at CB against Premier League opposition, 2-1 loss in against Spurs the Cup.

Alese or Rice, play a back three with Johnson and Coufal as wing backs

According to Transfermarkt, the U23s have played a back three six times over the past two seasons, and Alese has only played in it twice (and in one of those Ben Johnson played in the back 3 with him).

Lukerz

Alese will not play against Frankfurt but may be worth playing him against Chelsea. Still don’t see Moyes doing that.

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

Would be surprised if Moyes just threw I'm Alese, he hasn't even started him in the cups if I'm correct

Would be very out of character, but then again maybe this is the push Moyes needs, almost take the decision away from him

I hope we use Alese, he seems a really good prospect and allows us to play him without weakening other areas of the team shoehorning non-CB players to CB

Lukerz

This is a man who doesn’t even give Kral a chance, he isn’t playing Alese. 👍

IronHerb

Alese played against Zagreb and the kids didn't put up too shabby a performance.

OldCastleSwift

I think he might. I know it's going against form, but I just think the impact to the team of playing two or three players out of position is too big.

Lukerz

I think sensible (and likely) is…

Fabianski
Coufal - Dawson - Johnson - Cresswell
Soucek - Rice
Bowen - Lanzini - Fornals
Antonio

Which has the flexibility to become a back 3 if Johnson is struggling in a back four - whether Rice drops in between the two CBs or Fornals drops back to LWB.

alderz

Lukerz said:

This is a man who doesn’t even give Kral a chance, he isn’t playing Alese. 👍

Speaking of, Kral has started as a CB 35 times in his club career, but only once since leaving FK Teplice in 2019.

Rice has started as a CB 19 times for us in his career, but not since we lost 4-1 to Everton in September 2020, he hasn't had a run at CB since the end of the 2017/18 season, and of the 19 times we have kept 4 clean sheets. Also, from what I can tell, in that run at CB he basically only played in a back 3.

I hear what you're saying, and there's a big chance you are going to be right. But, IMO, Alese remains the best choice.

Lukerz

I don’t know why, but I get a sense of the Radoslav Kovac’s with Kral…