Brexit: the next stage. Deal or No Deal? (and the General Election)

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Comments

  • bbb

    Kudos to you for making the effort to be active in this. ;bowdown
  • They need learn from the brexit bus and just say what people want to hear as it gets the result. Next week is not about detailed arguments just keep saying upon every platform that if you vote for us from this year your children will have no tuition fee's, NHS will be funded immediately, education will be funded immediately, we will not allow a tory dementia tax. What was learnt from the referendum is subtlety and debate doesn't win, short sharp bites of what the voter wants to hear does. The voter is not complex and relies on headlines and a general tone rather than extensive weighing and measuring of information.

    I cant help notice that the tories have suddenly began to speak of the difficult times ahead due to leaving the EU and how the economy has to be placed at the forefront of policy. I thought this leaving the EU was not perilous at all, but instead a brilliant opportunity. It seems now almost taken as fact that we will all be worse off and need tighten our belts. No one seems to think we will be better off now and even resigned to needing immigration levels to remain high just to function.

    Unfortunately I think we get the future we as a nation deserve.
  • You know the lib Dems become more attractive to me....

    I thought the leader did well in the TV debate, their policies are in line with my own.

    If I was aloud to vote I think it maybe yellow is colour....
  • Btw the arrogance of May not showing up, the British people being what we are.

    We don't like over confidence, I am hoping it will bite her on the behind...
  • Sorry as ex forces there is no way I would accept Corbyn as Prime Minister
  • I think they are the middle ground but they repel brexiters and so will find it hard to win but could provide a few surprises. Watch the Maidenhead vote come in on the night, may be closer than many think.

    I was too young to vote or even really understand politics when Maggie came around but I think I now know how so many felt repulsed by her, and May is only Maggie light.
  • edited June 2017
    ammerin


    Even though he has been clear that under a Labour government troops they would only be sent into combat abroad if
    - they were properly resourced
    - there was a clear need for military intervention and
    - there was a plan for lasting peace afterwards.


    Which hasn't been the case under past Tory OR Nu-Labour governments?
  • BBB I was labour but the Iraq war and then Brown and the subsequent internal warfair turns me against them...
  • BBB I hate Jaffa cakes ;lol

    Always voting Labour though. You can have mine ;ok

  • edited June 2017

    BBB I was labour but the Iraq war and then Brown and the subsequent internal warfair turns me against them...

    They had nothing to do with socialism and 'real' Labour values. They were 'new' labour, ie Tory light.

    Come back to the dark red side.
  • Unfortunately I think internal warfair is the red side, you can't make change if you don't win....
  • edited June 2017

    Unfortunately it's a waste of a vote nationally Vorse although I think that they will do well in certain areas of the country.
    Come to Labour

    We have Jaffa Cakes ;ok

    We don't vote nationally, we vote in whichever constituency we happen to be registered in.

    I live in Leyton and Wanstead where Labour have a 15000 majority with the Tories in second. I'll be voting Labour as I've done in every election since 1979

    My best mate lives in Colchester which the Lib Dems lost to the Tories last time, Labour have been a distant third in every election since 1997. He supports Labour but will vote Lib Dem because they have a realistic chance of beating the Tories. In his case a vote for Labour could help the Tories.
  • I love your optimism Laura and I share it.
    It's been a real rollercoaster ride for the last few weeks. I'm just really pleased that the media tactics are starting to be seen for what they really are and people are now starting to debate policy.
    Nevertheless, I'm a realist- the most I am hoping for is a hung parliament, but it is good for my political soul to get a positive response to our policies rather than concentrating on personalities.its great to see the 'Strong and Stable ' approach blow up in May's face. I wouldn't trust that lot to negotiate on our behalf in a million years.
    Two more days of door knocking to go, then I'm going to become a spectator like everyone else ;cider

    BBB,
    My optimism is based on what I see. Labour's campaign has momentum, Corbyn as the campaign has gone on is looking more assured and relaxed, which I think comes from the positivity from the voters he's met, he's enjoying every minute. The Tories on the other hand look like they are staring defeat in the face, which in effect they are, about to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. They have run a very poor campaign from the start with May looking uncomfortable at every appearance, she looks lacking in confidence and belief. That is why I believe we will have a Labour Government on Friday.
  • LSB - I think its more likely the Tories will be the largest party but will not have enough seats to form a government with the most likely outcome being a coalition of Labour, Lib Dems and Scot Nats.
  • ASLEF,
    Either way it will be a great achievement by Corbyn who has been demonised by the right wing media since he was elected leader (and before that) so I think to bring Labour up to the levels shown in the polls is a great achievement from being consistently written off and who knows he could just win it outright as I think he will.
  • LSB - agree 100%, from being something like 20% behind in the polls to within 5% is a phenomenal achievement with so much against him although May has been utterly useless so far.
  • Agreed.
    What has surprised me was the high number who have registered to vote by the 22nd May deadline. Assuming a large number of those are young I think the chances are this will benefit Labour the most. I just get the feeling from news reports (regardless of what they are saying, and I note Daily Mail are giving Corbyn a tough time today over the nuclear stuff) that Labour are on the up in this campaign at just the right time and will do it, remember they said Trump would never this, that, the other and look what happened there...President Trump when everyone and his wife said it was nailed on Hilary Clinton so the seemingly impossible can and does happen.
  • LSB - I think its more likely the Tories will be the largest party but will not have enough seats to form a government with the most likely outcome being a coalition of Labour, Lib Dems and Scot Nats.

    I would snap your hand off for that Aslef.

    The other issue if the tories win is that without doubt in my mind May has been exposed and her own party will get rid of her and so I wonder who will end up as leader should she resign through some made up health issue (get pushed out).

    Have never wanted a party to be removed from power as much as I do now, May represents everything I cannot abide, only Boris would I dislike more.

  • ;ok claret

    I hope the Tory's don't win but I very much fear that they will.
  • edited June 2017

    ;ok claret

    I hope the Tory's don't win but I very much fear that they will.

    Suzanne,

    I don't think that will be the case at all. May & the Tories have fought a poor campaign, perhaps based on an arrogance due to their supposed huge lead in the opinion polls. Corbyn & Labour have fought a campaign (as under dogs with nothing to lose) they have gone out, met the public and got their message across which has been well received by the public and has shown in the narrowing of the opinion polls. I believe in the final few days the gap will narrow still further and Labour will take a decisive lead. Far from Labour being in disarray as the media would have us believe, it is the Tories who are in disarray and May herself is finished, exposed over the last few months as weak and clueless, unfit neither to lead her party or be Prime Minister and frankly good riddance to her.
  • Laura, I'd love it, but I think the Tories are starting from such an advantage, plus I thnk when push comes to shove a large number of Tory doubters will play safe.
  • I made (not physically, there were no ties or cuffs involved) a friend watch question time last night as she had been telling me she was voting Tory and couldn't trust Corbyn. I knew she had never read or watched anything and was basing it upon carefully encouraged public perceptions managed by the right wing press headlines. She agreed to watch it with me and at the end remarked that on no account could she vote Tory when represented by Theresa May and that Corbyn although not entirely her cup of tea (her words) came across more than anything else as trustworthy and genuine. We might not win on Thursday but I can tell you even that small victory felt good.
  • In case you're unsure who to vote for The Guardian has a helpful tactical voting thingie, just type in your postcode and it gives you the info on your constituency if you don't want the Tories to win.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2017/jun/02/tactical-voting-guide-how-to-make-your-vote-count-in-the-2017-election

    If you want the Tories to win then obviously vote Tory.
  • Viewing all this from a great distance, I'm sorry to say that I think the recent terrorist attacks have handed the election to the Tories. In an emergency, a nation always supports its government (Bush was deeply unpopular before 9/11; ditto Thatcher before the Falklands.) There won't be time to deal rationally with the issue, the opposition will sound unpatriotic if they try to. As for myself, May couldn't have put it better: Enough is Enough - GO, Prime Minister, GO! ;wave
  • Trouble is (on that last bit), it's just empty words. Sounds tough at first glance, and resonates with the public but doesn't hold up to closer scrutiny - on various levels. (imo)

    Also imo, I think the idea that we need to 'stop them using the internet' is nonsense. Again, it sounds good (yeah, blame the internet) but it will be unworkable and (ultimately) ineffective. And it's not like terrorism didn't thrive around the world in a pre-internet age.

    I make you right that it will be a Tory victory, but not for the reasons you suggest. Bear in mind, before the latest attacks, Corbyn had already got some momentum in terms of promising more police etc - and highlighted the fact that cuts came under a Tory govt who had Teresa May as the Home Secretary.;ok
  • I'm interested in how this non-publication of the 'foreign funding' report will play out. It might be too complicated an issue to play a part in affecting how people vote. It may be an issue that will be important in the longer term though. The longer the Tories cover up the findings, the more suspicious people will become that it explicitly implicates Saudia Arabia and that May knew about it in her role as Home Secretary.
  • I was baffled by the 'Enough is enough' thing. Was she saying

    a) that years of Tory government have failed to enact the powers required to prevent extremism

    b) that they have the powers, but have failed to enact them

    Either way, it sounded like an admission of failure.

  • edited June 2017
    MrsGrey said:

    Trouble is (on that last bit), it's just empty words. Sounds tough at first glance, and resonates with the public but doesn't hold up to closer scrutiny - on various levels. (imo)

    Also imo, I think the idea that we need to 'stop them using the internet' is nonsense. Again, it sounds good (yeah, blame the internet) but it will be unworkable and (ultimately) ineffective. And it's not like terrorism didn't thrive around the world in a pre-internet age.

    Cybercrime in general is on the rise though. I don't think you can stop terrorists over the internet but you can certainly disrupt communication and get better lines of intelligence. You only have to look at the NHS (Window XP) fiasco to know how dangerous the internet can be in the wrong hands. Granted had the NHS (already breaking the law using XP machines still anyway) updated to a newer version of windows they wouldn't be in this predicament it shows you what can and could be done.

    Not sure what the government can do though it sounds like a statement for more regulation and breaching of privacy using the internet something I could never advocate if you want to maintain any kind of Freedom par se.
  • Yeold

    That's the trouble for me: it's sabre-rattling with no end purpose.

    Unless you are going to have a situation where the only access to the Internet is via government controlled servers, there is simply no way to regulate or police it effectively.

    And anyway, if governments haven't learned by now that 'stop the supply' is not the answer then they do not deserve the responsibility of running the country.

    May: Sounding tough, doing nothing.
  • There is an interesting thing that gives me a little optimism and it comes from the referendum. We were told that the remain camp relied on project fear and that appears all that the Tory party rely on in this election.

    I don't think on current record how anyone can be happy with how the tories have brought the NHS to it's knees, are slowly beginning on the police, and the economy will likely follow with a hard brexit. So all they are saying is you cant trust JC to run any of those things, especially the economy. That is surely the same argument that lost remain the referendum.

    I feel more than anything the referendum holds the outcome to this election and were brexit not happening and with May at the helm the Tories would lose massively, there only hope is that leavers are wed to brexit enough to overlook the NHS, education and the police in the belief (without any evidence so far ) that she is best placed to negotiate brexit. I actually think the opposite is true as I think the EU hate her and them and now their moment of vulnerability has passed with the Franco German elections and with strong leaders in France and Germany they will tell May and her self important cronies where to go. Corbyn however will forge friendship and allow a deal which suits both, he will not get the cake and eat it, but that never has and never will be available, that is simply the pup we have been sold.

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